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Fightin' the MMORPG Fight

Your friendly neighborhood blogger. Writing about the games out there you play, with a sarcastic spin.

Author: blooblob

18+ guilds, why?

Posted by blooblob Friday August 15 2008 at 7:43PM
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Hello all, I am a MMORPG addicted kid who wants to share with you the mature side of children. I want to bring forth a topic that has made me question how other kids in my age group act. I want to talk about all of the 18+ guilds/clans out there.

Before I get flamed to death, I will be presenting both sides of the coin. Why guilds want to exclude, and why they shouldn't exclude ALL of them. My points are very thought out and I have even talked to one of my friends who runs an 18+ guild. I think that gives me a good enough background information to give you a detailed blog post about this topic.

Now on to the good stuff:

Good reasons why to exclude the "under 18" age group:

In general, kids around the 8 to 15 year age group tend to be very immature. Excessive swearing, use of fart jokes, and general idiocy prevent the more mature among the age group to be a part of a mature MMORPG community.Use WoW as an example. Many times during my (very short) playtime of World of Warcraft, I have ran into very immature individuals. One such example is a character on the Horde side.I was having a great time with people in the starting zone, when a level 30 Horde character came in.He proceeded to challenge everyone to a duel. if someone declined, he would tell them they had no balls and should give up playing video games. If someone accepted and lost, he would yell "YOU SUCK SO MUCH LOL I AM THE MASTER!" I then asked him his age and he said he was 15.

When I questioned my friend about why he had an 18+ only guild, he said that he didn't think that kids should hear some thing that they discuss. In my personal opinion, I think that I've HEARD IT ALL. You wouldn't believe some of this bullshit kids talk about in my class! Even though I think that I would be able to take it, maybe more delicate (and innocent) minds would be offended.No body wants a screaming parent wondering where their child learned what a "blow job" was from his "Friends in "Insert MMORPG here."Trust me, I've heard it before, it's not pretty.

On to the next topic:

Reasons why they should allow some, not all, kids into their guilds.

If your a kid like me, and you've wanted to join a hardcore guild for a certain MMORPG, then you search for one. Once you find one, you've found that you meet every single requirement. Your extremely excited that you've found your perfect guild, but then you see those dreaded words: Over 18 only! For me, it just breaks my heart that my perfect guild won't let me in just because I wasn't born around the same time they were, or before they were.Just because so many of my peers show such child-like behaviour doesn't mean I act the same way! If I were to meet some of these clan leaders I would give them a valid reason to let me in. But just because I'm under 18, some people won't even give me a chance!

Well I hope I gave you all some valid points to think about in this post. Just think that if you were in my shoes, would you want some person to deny you access to something just because your too young? The least you could do is give us kids a chance! We all aren't a bunch of hoodlums you know, we might actually surprise you once in a while... :)

EDIT: Feel free in the comments to add your comments on why or why not kids should be allowed access.

Zerocyde writes:

Well of course it should be on a player to player basis, but just saying "18+ only" helps weed out a lot of the crap.

Fri Aug 15 2008 7:57PM Report
miagisan writes:

you ask why? i ask .. why not? our guild has been of the older persuasion since inception..we are very happy with our community.

Fri Aug 15 2008 8:22PM Report
Guernica writes:

A good post with some good points. I think it would be a better read if you came out on one side or the other though.

I've been in 'family' guilds and adult guilds. Both were fun. The difference in the 18+ guilds tended to be the level of respect between players more than anything else. Its true that adults can be just as annoying and childish as minors, but when there are limits on membership it usually attracts players with a more serious mindset. If I play in an adults only guild I expect it to be more goal orientated - more into planning and executing raids and getting gear for guild members - than in a family guild where the pace will be slower.

If you really want to play in a guild that has an age limit you could try running with some of its members for a while and get them to  'sponsor' you into the guild. If I ran an 18+ guild for the reasons I mentioned by guildmates kept telling me they knew a cool kid who could be trusted not to dick around in the guild I could probably be persuaded to give him a go. And if they're really not interested in having you no matter how cool you are - do you really want to be in their guild?

Fri Aug 15 2008 9:00PM Report
blooblob writes:

I have tried the sponsor thing before, and I've been rejected because "He's not 18" I really want a goal orientated guild like you mentioned, but most are 18+, I'm not saying that all guilds that are 18+ will reject kids my age, that's all a matter of how they behave. I really hope I can find a serious mmo for a game that will be released soon. ( I'm looking at you Warhammmer.)

Fri Aug 15 2008 9:08PM Report
HelloKirby writes:

"use of fart jokes"

0mg... I AM SO GOING TO FU#ing HAX U!!!!

/sarcasm off

But seriously fart jokes can be stinking (pun intended) awesome. :D  I do agree with everything else.  I am 15, and I have seen and heard 18+ that act worse than the average kid. 

Fri Aug 15 2008 9:22PM Report
blooblob writes:

Kirby with the last sentence, you don't even need to explain

DON'T..DO...IT...

Fri Aug 15 2008 9:24PM Report
ZoOoO writes:

no kids thx, i got enoguh with mine.

 

Fri Aug 15 2008 9:40PM Report
blooblob writes:

Zoo, care to elaborate, I couldn't get what you were saying.

Fri Aug 15 2008 9:49PM Report
veratutazz writes:

18+ only means that everyone in the guild is a legal consenting adult.

This can have far-raching implications.

 From the mundane "don't want to curse in front of a minor"

to the more serious "don't want to discuss adult situations in front of a minor"

to the more serious "do not want to be *contributing to the delinquancy of a minor*".

18+ only may "weed out most of the immaturity", but it is only logical to argue back that some kids under 18 can and are *very* mature.

 However, many prefer to draw the lines for simplicity's sake & because US people consider minors to not be legally responsible for their actions when in the presence of an adult.

Fri Aug 15 2008 10:04PM Report
Shohadaku writes:

heh My guild (TheOlderGamers) is 25+

Fri Aug 15 2008 10:43PM Report
madcoil writes:

Well not to sound close minded, but I find the 15 to 18 year olds the worst.  I would almost rather a 9 year old in my guild.  Honestly, I have NEVER run into an exception to the rule.  Some under 18s are better than others, but I find they all eventually revert back to being immature.  Of course, this is not anyones fault...after all they are young.  It honestly comes down to the fact that you may be more mature than others your age, but you are still not mature.  Adult guilds talk about adult topics.  It isn't even things that could shock a young mind, but things that adults find interesting and kids do not.  Also nothing is more annoying than having a teenager try to tell me about life when they have no idea what life is about.  Finally I would say that a lot of adults who play have kids of their own and don't want to feel like they have to continue their parenting skills while playing a game.  It is a release for adults to take a mental break.  I find in general that it is young people who talk the most smack, cause the most drama and listen to direction the worst.  Of course, that is just my opinion.  :)

Fri Aug 15 2008 10:44PM Report
WRyan writes:

Look - I read your title and your first paragraph and nothing more.  I can already tell you why there are 18+ only guilds and why I support them.

It has nothing to do with maturity, since in most cases, that has nothing to do with age.  Being a Minor in a guild that is 18+ makes you a liability.  It's just that simple.

"Son, where did you hear that language?  Where did you learn about this sort of immoral behavior?"

"From my guild of older guys in my favorite game!"

"Well, I'll just have to write good old Jack Thompson about this!!!"

Next thing you know, these mature adults are held accountable for your actions, citing they should know better than to influence a minor to be such a negative entity in society.  Not that you aren't already a bad kid, but simply being held accountable...

Now, don't take this out of context... I'm not saying your a bad kid, but the truth of the matter is, as a minor, you are a liability.

Fri Aug 15 2008 11:42PM Report
Moodah writes:

I had some kids in our guild from time to time, mostly the children of our members. The problem I see with having kids is the general lack of patience that you get as you grow up. Although there is no rule, and you can get some very mature 15 year olds, those are exception to the rule and most adult guilds just don't want to risk someone jumping on their nerves when they come to relax and have fun - not saying that some adults are not the same way, but they are just way easier to deal with.

Besides - you can always try running your own guild  - running it good takes some nerves but you also learn alot about people.

Sat Aug 16 2008 12:14AM Report
Thradar writes:

My wife is a high school teacher.  Yes, there are some kids who fall in the tail end of the maturity distribution curve and act fairly mature, make good decisions, and aren't selfish.  But in general the rest of the population resides in the meat of the maturity distribution curve and are annoying as hell.  And even the kids who seem mature (and think they are mature) really aren't when compared to adults.  Sure, they may seem that way relative to their peers, but they have zero life experience and almost zero responsibility to mold them into a person who does make good decisions, isn't selfish, etc.

When I was 17 I was at Ft. Benning, GA going through boot camp.  Most (notice I didn't say all) 17 year olds these days are too worried about texting on their l33t cellphones, hooking up, and playing Guitar Hero to develop mature personal skills.

Most of the people I play with are 30+.  Sorry.

Sat Aug 16 2008 12:27AM Report
DarkShandris writes:

I disagree with most said here. Since this is about opinions and is open to members I will not hesitate to state mine. What we must realize is that it's not about "life skills" or "life experiance" when it comes to a game, because essentially all is learned in-game. One person on this topic (I forget who, I am sorry to say) even said that they would prefer a 9 year old to a 15 year old, which goes to say that one can not say life experiance affects the gameplay of teenagers, for a 9 year old knows, in general, even less.

I am 16 years old, I have a white collar job at a hotel working the front desk. I have been a Night Auditor counting thousands in cash every night. Am I as mature as an adult? Some say yes some say no. But why are we comparing whether or not a teenager is "as (insert trait here) as an adult" anyway? Shouldn't it be based on whether or not they are mature in the first place?

I have been the leader of small guilds before and although I agree witht he statement that "kids" are annoying at times, we must not forget that every headache is a curable one, especially when in a guild you simply click the "Remove from guild" button.

My point in all of this is that age is not everything and teenagers are different from person to person. Saying that a guild is only 25+ or 18+, in my opinion, should be a guideline, not a rule. Also, I don't understand why parents would feel the need to "babysit" others' children. By saying that either most or all teenagers are bad or troublemakers or what have you, and then agreeing with the 25+ or so method, one is only providing an illusion that they agree with the fact there shouldn't be this in an MMO.

Sat Aug 16 2008 12:41AM Report
BlueCadwal writes:

I was actually in an 18+ guild for a few days and quickly left.  Last summer, I joined an 18+ guild.  The conversations peaked at sex, racist jokes, and comparing "swords."  Seriously, if you're gonna have an 18+ guild I wanna be able to discuss serious 18+ subjects like politics, current events, and participate in guild events.  Since that incident, I've held great disgust for 18+ guilds and believe they're no better than any other exclusive guild out there (for example Elf only or Ogre only ~ for generic's sake).

Sat Aug 16 2008 1:00AM Report
sprites01 writes:

Let me put a question to you.  If kids/teenagers are just as mature and able as the 18+ crowd, why are you so desperate to join an 18+ guild?  Is it just because you can't join, so you feel it's better in some way or feel you're "owed" the entrance, or is it because the under 18 crowd really aren't as mature, responsible and respectful as the 18+ lot and as a result the guilds are not as fun to be in?

Lets face it, if the majority of under 18 gamers were good members, this debate would not exist.  There are exceptions to the rule on both sides but it's the majority that influences.

Incidentally, immature and disrespectful behaviour are not welcome in my guild regardless of age.  18+ is not a free pass.

Sat Aug 16 2008 5:29AM Report
Death1942 writes:

18+ is the lazy way to root out immature players.  i know many guilds were if you talk to them they will make exceptions (notably all the guilds i got into when i played WoW,  simply demonstrate your maturity with an interview of some sort and you will most likely get in).

personally i cant stand some of the younger members of the gaming world.  they are the people who make this genre so cliche and crappy (who the hell says lol in real life? or thinks spamming is fun? or leet speak is normal?).  on the flip side you have the vocal (vocal not population wise) minority who play games and dont go around talking like a complete idiot and actually enjoy the games.

 

18+ is a quick way to get to those kind of gamers.

Sat Aug 16 2008 6:22AM Report
blooblob writes:

Sprites, I don't feel I am "owed" a spot in a guild, I just get very mad when I'm denied just because I'm not over 18 or 25. I have met people hell bent on saying "All kids are immature." As an example, say someone is talking about politics, and I want to join he discussion. Well they say I can't because I'm some teenager who knows nothing about it. Well what if I do? Does that sound fair that their stereotyping me JUST because I'm a kid?

Death, very good points there. I agree 18+ is a good way to get mature people, even if all of them aren't mature. Kids in my school say l33t speak all the time, and it annoys me so much I want to scream. I try to explain to them it makes them look like a moron, but they are doing it to be funny. I am one of those people who refuses to talk like an idiot, and I want to enjoy my game with other like minded people.

 

Sat Aug 16 2008 7:49AM Report
solarine writes:

Not to bring the youth down, but this made me remember some fascinating scientific research on the subject in the last ten years. I reckon you can google your way to it if you're really interested in the details, but I'll try to summarize:

Said scientific researches have shown that the brain is not "fully developed" until after age 18 when it comes to emotions. Apparently, the brain system that regulates logic and reasoning develops before the area that regulates impulse and emotions... This makes teens ill-equipped in making good judgments as well as more susceptible to peer pressure.

The shocking part in this is that scientists say it's more of a "hardware" issue than a "software" one. They say education does not seem to work and teens just do not have the neurological brakes that adults have. This practically makes them more akin to "large children" instead of the "small adults" they're often regarded as.

 

Sat Aug 16 2008 8:04AM Report
boognish75 writes:

as a parent i can tell you  why as i am in an 18 over guild as we joke around about fisting, the shocker, and members who screw up are called tuckers, we sware within guild chat constantly and if i seen chat like that in my 7 year olds guild i would go ballistic and report and take him out of it, I couldnt imagine my kids going to school asking a teacher what a tucker is or what the shocker is because he heard it in his guild chat.

Sat Aug 16 2008 8:25AM Report
bandin writes:

I still don't understand the BS that circulates around 18+ guilds.  True, a person could still be 9 and yet have the skill to perfect Guitar Hero's "Thru the Fire and Flames" on expert, but the idea of 18+ guilds is just "a lazy man's dream". If guild masters have the "leadership" of a guild but they're still lazy enough to go to McDonald's as opposed to cook a meal in the oven, chances are they are lazy enough to say "ok, 18+, no exceptions."  I personally have met officers from other guilds who do that rule for the very reason most people do, but they would sometimes spam stinkin' fart jokes on trade.  The only people they attract are people who know how to "farm dates" (Good going, "/roll [number]") but are under 18.   And people under 18 would sometimes miss out on the raids that MMOs like WoW offer, just because of that arbitrary rule.

A better way to make sure people are mature will be to examine their playing and chatting habits in a guild.  A 11-year-old player with fluent English who knows very well how to heal on his druid would get accepted into the guild under the system, but a 33-year-old player with a Leeroy-style tank and only decent English probably would not.  Then again, teens who rant about how many badges they have or how high their warrior crits would get expelled from that guild.  The idea of not giving bias to the adults and accepting only mature people is exactly what my guild does.

Just a rant from a 13-year-old who knows very well how to play a hunter in WoW.

Sat Aug 16 2008 10:04AM Report
Pepsipwnzgod writes:

Ken i haz hears ur Fart jokes plizz?

Sat Aug 16 2008 12:50PM Report
Rayx0r writes:

funny, the only people you usually see making comments like "Ive met a lot of people under 15 years old who are more mature than some 30 year olds" are the people who fall within that 15 year old age group.

fact of the matter is, you'll find more immaturaity below the ages of 18 then you will over that age.  Thats not heresay, its a fact no matter how you want to spin it.

Sat Aug 16 2008 3:23PM Report
Daitengu writes:

I've been a part of a 'family' guild for the better part of 3 years on WoW.  We have a slow recruting rate, but I like it that way.  The 1 month probationary period really gives plenty of time to access a person's character.  The beggers and stealers get booted rather fast without any sacrifice to the guild.

Yes sometimes there are those that just want to make you /facepalm because of stupidity. They generally either learn, leave, or get kicked out.

Once every couple of years in an MMO I like to find a 'pet' project by finding a kiddo and raise em to be a respectful MMO gamer.  That's fun player made content to me at anyrate. <.<

Sat Aug 16 2008 4:08PM Report
Yaisha writes:

I don't exclude people lower than 18 for any reason like maturity... It is just that, I don't hang out with children in real life so why would I want to online?

Sat Aug 16 2008 4:43PM Report
likenew writes:

Didn't see it mentioned, but a lot of guilds raid late, and a person under 18 should be in bed by a certain time if there parents are doing there jobs properly.  Don't want to lose people when you get to the final boss in your raid now do you?

Sat Aug 16 2008 7:32PM Report
blooblob writes:

Wow, was not expecting this much popularity with my first blog post. I guess I'll be posting more often.

And I thought I would get a lot of one sided comments, but I got a mixed bag. I like to hear others views on this.

Sat Aug 16 2008 7:41PM Report
Nadril writes:

I don't think that someone under the age of 18 can really see it from a perspective other than they think they are mature. Lets face it, I think that most everyone would like to consider themselves a mature individual.

 

However I join 18+ guilds (or 18+ with few exceptions) for a few reasons:

1) Liability. The fact is having, for example, a 13 year old in your guild is a big liability. You don't know if they are going to get grounded, if their parents are going to make them get off the computer or what is going to happen. They have a lot less control over their life than someone 18+.

Sure, we have girlfriends / wives / ect. to consider but it's different.

2) I don't really want to talk about mature things with a 13 year old, sorry. Really it's just awkward at best trying to hear some kid add in his own imput.

 

Now, maturity? I do agree that 18+ guilds are more "Mature", but in the way that they can tell the difference between what is a game, what isn't and what is and isn't a joke. In my experience a lot of kids in previous guilds of mine will complain when they don't get something (raiding in WoW for example) or they don't know how to take criticism.

 

And finally I agree with "likenew" that a lot of guilds raid late, and nothing is worse then "GTG guys bed time".

Sat Aug 16 2008 8:49PM Report
Claes writes:

There's nothing worse than being on VT, talking to a squeeky voiced teenager.

Sat Aug 16 2008 9:50PM Report
CreepingDoom writes:

Sure there is, a squeaky voiced adult is much worse.

Sat Aug 16 2008 10:30PM Report
just1opinion writes:

Well not to sound close minded, but I find the 15 to 18 year olds the worst.  I would almost rather a 9 year old in my guild.  Honestly, I have NEVER run into an exception to the rule.  Some under 18s are better than others, but I find they all eventually revert back to being immature.  Of course, this is not anyones fault...after all they are young.  It honestly comes down to the fact that you may be more mature than others your age, but you are still not mature.  Adult guilds talk about adult topics.  It isn't even things that could shock a young mind, but things that adults find interesting and kids do not.  Also nothing is more annoying than having a teenager try to tell me about life when they have no idea what life is about.  Finally I would say that a lot of adults who play have kids of their own and don't want to feel like they have to continue their parenting skills while playing a game.  It is a release for adults to take a mental break.  I find in general that it is young people who talk the most smack, cause the most drama and listen to direction the worst.  Of course, that is just my opinion.  :)

 

Quoted for TRUTH.  I could have typed that entirely myself.

Sun Aug 17 2008 4:28AM Report
ghostinfinit writes:

I not only agree with 18+ guilds way of thinking, I'd like to see 18+ servers.  I understand when I see people post things like "Well, all players under the age of 18 aren't immature.  I know this guy who is 25 and and he.... etc etc etc"  You get the point.  If I'm going to form an adult/mature guild and I send my officers out to recruit I'm going to play the odds.  Statistically speaking children (sub 18 years of age) are less mature than people 18+ and increasingly "more mature" the further you get away from 18. 

If you talked to me at age 15 I would tell you in a second "yeah I feel I'm mature for my age" I was almost 6 feet tall and a few years later I was in the USMC going to boot camp.  Looking back at myself and the things I did before I was 18 there's no way I was "mature" even though at the time I felt that way.  If kids want a mature guild then go out and build one.  Don't let it hurt your feelings because the adults won't let you in theirs because as time rolls by your day will come. 

Sun Aug 17 2008 6:44AM Report
patrikd23 writes:

I would like to see 25+ servers but that is not  possible, but 25+ guilds are possible though.

Sun Aug 17 2008 7:32AM Report
sprites01 writes:

blooblob, I noticed you didn't answer my questions and chose to highlight the most negative part of my post.  This kind of tunnel vision is an example of why you are not as mature as you think you are.  I know how you feel and it sucks.  I was a mature kid also, or that's what I thought, but a mature teen is not the same as a mature adult.

 

I've no doubt that there are mature youngsters playing these games, but, like I said before, the fact remains that the majority of teens are not mature and that is why the 18+ rule will always be a factor in guild recruitment and I guarantee you that when you get older, if you are still playing, you will enforce, encourage or support the same rule.

Also, and this isn't aimed specifically at you blooblob, I'd like to point out that the old "Bob did it too!" argument is another sign of immaturity.  Pointing out other people's faults do not improve your own.

Sun Aug 17 2008 8:27AM Report
sprites01 writes:

Sorry for the bold, was not intentional.

Sun Aug 17 2008 8:29AM Report
patrikd23 writes:

Respect, loyalty and common sense "usually" comes at older age.. that is why my cards are on the 20-25+ age group for guilds so that you can relax in game and play it and not having to worry about kids with no sense on how to act.. have enough to worry about irl so when I play I wanna have fun and escape real life. Morals followed by wit and etiquette is hard for young kids to understand , yet act accordingly. But I can tell ya  I accually meet 1 or 2 under 18 that had it among like hundreds but they are very rare.

Sun Aug 17 2008 8:46AM Report
thirdechelon writes:

"18+ Only" is absurd, i've played with 15 16 and 17 year olds, yeah they act silly sometimes, but not to the extent that they deserve to be kicked or not invited to groups or guilds. Its very much case by case.

I do think under 16 is a bit young to be playing MMOs, but thats probably a different topic. Now most people younger then 16 are just not level intellectually with most adults, most male adult players will just bag them out like irl, so imo younger players will have more fun playing with people their own age likewise with adults.

also, MMOs are a massive time sink, i dont think students should play them(my opinion and experience).

Sun Aug 17 2008 8:55AM Report
blooblob writes:

Sprites, sorry about not highlighting the rest of the post, I've been meaning to do it, but I've been really busy. Did not mean to offend you in any way.

Sun Aug 17 2008 9:39AM Report
Dyrtt writes:

I'm sure this has been touched upon in the comments above, but I didn't have time to read the entire thread.

 

For me, the reason I only play in "mature player" guilds is one of respect.  I have a kid of my own and I would be quite disturbed if I found out she was running around with 30 year old dudes, even if it was just in a video game.  So, out of respect for the parents parents out there I don't associate too much with children in my games.   

Sun Aug 17 2008 9:55AM Report
Deathknightk writes:

18+ rule applies to guild recruting because of 2 things

1- Liability

2-People-18 have no control over thier life. I remember the last time we had a 16y/o in my last guild, we reached the final boss in SSC and the kid was our MT. In the middle of the fight we heared him scream and cry to his mother to allow him 10 more mins, but his mother turns his PC off and we wipe. Now why do I have to risk a raid because of a person who has no control over his life ?

Sun Aug 17 2008 11:12AM Report
Aetern-e writes:

I'm 14 and I am experiencing the same problem, when I try to dedicate time towards guilds and MMO communities that has a serious distaste towards teenagers like me, most of them anyway, and I feel left out and their prejudices towards everyone at my age make them even beforehand talking to me, asks me if I'm here to make a contribution or just sit and talk crap.

There are some of us teenagers, that can at least compare to many mature players, but to find an adult realizing that is rare.

Sun Aug 17 2008 11:21AM Report
blooblob writes:

zeramact i'm having the same problem. Now that I'm 13 (12 when I worte this) it's getting even worse. It's not just MMO's either, it's also in the playstation network and xbox Live communities. Just yesterday I was playing and I randomly got cussed out because I was talking to my friend and I said I was 13

Fri Oct 10 2008 5:39AM Report

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