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Spouse Aggro!

I blog at www.spouseaggro.com, write for www.ablegamers.com, run www.mmovoices.ning.com and post all over the net. HOWDY!

Author: beauturkey

5 years of EVE have taught me a bit.

Posted by beauturkey Sunday July 26 2009 at 12:22PM
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These are simple comparisons of the good and bad of EVE online. My account turns 5 years old on the 30th, so the "return to EVE for 5 days" gift is a nice birthday present. Thanks to CCP I am exploring space for the first time in 8 months or so.

1) The game continues to evolve: Like any good "older" game ( I can't believe some of us think of the last 10 years as a "long time") it adds layers naturally. Imagine if you started a story today, and it was comprised of one paragraph. After a year or two of adding more paragraphs every week you would have a pretty complex fun little story. That's how EVE is, and every time I return I am surprised by some nice little update or graphical change.

Of course, many of these changes are nothing large enough to change the core game-play, or to really blow you away. Walking around in stations would be such a change, or being able to crew a ship with your friends (yes, I know...the LORE. But screw that. They can change it to make the game more fun.) So, only a veteran player might appreciate the little things.

Maybe wormholes or factional stuff would blow me away, so I will check those out next.

eve_online_large_3

2) The game continues to be a sausage party: Within 5 minutes of logging in for the first time in 8 months, the word "p**is" appeared 4 times. What is it about games like EVE, Darkfall, UO and the PvP server of EQ2 that attract such spicy talk? It is, like I said on Massively 62, the lack of girls. When I asked in chat why they talked so much to each other about their p****es, they got smarmy and just started talking about their pe****s more. Then, someone brought in race, then they asked if I were gay, then brought in religion, race, and pe****s in a contest to see who could use the foulest language.

While I know that there ARE females that play EVE, I would wager that maybe 1 percent of the population is female. Why should I care? Because when you gather together a bunch of men, they tend to want to talk about their ****** a lot. I don't know why, and I always wondered if I were normal in being uncomfortable with talking about my parts with other boys, but I guess I must be the odd man out. I think it is a basic human male trait, something that comes from cave-men days when we used to strut around peeing on trees to impress each other.

Thing is, I don't like peeing on trees, much less in front of a bunch of 2o somethings that listen to bad music. MUCH LESS trees in space.

On the other hand, some of the best nerdrific times can be had while hanging out with your buddies. You can only feel normal surrounded by your nerd friends while staring at a screen filled with tiny space-ships.

It would just be nice if they would try to address the issue of non-existent females in their game. It seems they think that once you can walk around in stations that female players will flock to the game to play space-dolls, but I think it is much simpler than that. The less females play, the less females want to play. It's not that girls only want to play with other girls or that girls cannot "hold their own" against boys, it's just a matter of sticking out. The two girls I met (in the entire 5 years of play) stuck out like sore thumbs. If they got on the Vent channel, WATCH OUT. Worse yet if they insulted some guy, being that soon would follow a stream of curse words and threats that would make any player embarrassed.

Even the developers seem to acknowledge this boy-on-boy action: (from their explanation of certificates, a new cool "achievement" type system) "Wondering just what the hell to train next on your 80 million SP character? Or just want to wave your Gunnery e-peen around? Read on!"

 Also, look up EVE fan-fest and you will notice that usually the only girls there are the ones that are paid to be there.

This is also a culture in which it has become OK to use the word "rape" to describe playing a video-game. While I am not mainly offended because of some kind of PC soft-spot, I am mainly offended because the very term comes from a place of MALENESS. Instead of worrying about making space-dolls to attract women, just no longer allow the use of the words n****r, f*g, d*ke, rape, c**k, pe**s, wiener, dingaling, or shlong and half of the community will dry up for lack of things to do. By the way, that would be a good thing.


Maybe it's just me. Maybe that's why I don't get into watching football with my male friends.

3) EVE isn't hard, just hard to read about: EVE is as hard as reading a thick novel. Like any good novel you have to set it down once in a while, maybe chat with your friends about it. It isn't hard to read the novel, just hard to find the time to finish it. EVE is that way: filled with information that needs to be read, and that takes time to finish.

It is a good boring, though, in the way that a good game of chess or a table-top game can be. It is filled with moments of leaning back in your chair pondering what to do next. You feel like a commander of a giant space ship sometimes, in the way that you have to be careful, wait things out sometimes, and walk quietly. Sometimes you set your ship on auto-pilot and go do laundry while it flies, thinking about what you will do when you get to your destination. I hope it makes sense to say that EVE can be dull in a good way.

And the challenge in EVE doesn't come from split-second timing or with knowing the strats of a dungeon. It comes from reading about whatever blocks your path (or by asking other players) and learning how to get past it. It took me a few of these years to figure out what kind of player I want to be or what kind of ship I want to pilot, but now I know. I like small ships, cloaking, exploring. I have a Covert Ops ship that I am still figuring out and a few elite frigates. I keep a Raven outfitted always, just in case I feel like going on mission runs. But overall, you can do a lot in the role you want if you just read about it.

4) War is boring, and so is combat: Again, this is a good thing. If you think about a battle between giant space-ships, it would be pretty slow moving, strategic. While there are moments of excitement in EVE, most large scale battles come down to just trying to survive while trying to kill someone else. Usually you know your target and try to concentrate on that.

In solo play/missions/pvp, you might hammer away at your enemy for a long time. Missiles take several seconds to reach them, and unless you are greatly outgunned, a fight can last for an eternity. This is boring, but in that chess-game way. If you start to get hurt too much and have done your home-work, you know when to call it and warp out, or you might have a back-up plan to help you survive.

Don't get me wrong, there have been times in war when I warped in, targeted someone and killed them before they even came back from taking a pee, and vice-versa. But generally fighting in EVE is a long (in comparison to other MMO's) process.

Having said all this, EVE is a great Sunday afternoon game. Just like football, you can sit around with a beer daydreaming about power. EVE is essentially one big browser game, with it's log-in-check-stuff-log-out play-style, so it's a great game for RMT. You don't even have to play for characters or for ships, just buy them with real life money. Buy a miner character and the ship to go with it, log in to mine while AFK. Or you can, of course, spend 5 years playing like me.

I give a nod to the attempts at making the game better, like the skill queue, but I am not sure that it does enough. Sure, you can fill up 24 hours worth of skill training (unless I am missing it where you can set it for more time) but in a higher "level" most of your skills will take much longer than that to train. Again, this is based on possibly not knowing more about the system, but my gut feeling is that they didn't want to allow players to set a month of skill training because they knew that the populations in game would quickly drop. Players would simply log into their 2 or 3 accounts (many players have multiple accounts), start a skill training and then only log in to check it once in a while. Soon, the game would go from having tons of players on at once to having tons of players checking in every once in a while.

Anyway, not enough has changed to make me sub again to EVE after this 5 day return. The game is great if you are into it's type of game-play, but be aware that EVE is simply a game of time and of maintenance.

Not that that's always a bad thing.

Beau

Inktomi writes:

"Swordfighting is like chess...you have to think...before you move."

EVE is a thinking mans game.

Let's play, "Read between the (turkey) lines."

1.  "My account turns 5 years old on the 30th"

( but I never play it because I don't like the game.)

2. "only a veteran player might appreciate the little things."

(I need garner cred because I secretly hate the game.)

3.  Or just want to wave your Gunnery e-peen around? Read on!"

(Hey, I have an e-peen too, but size doesn't matter right?)

4. I don't get into watching football with my male friends.

(I'm too delicate for football, and talk about manly stuff scares me.)

5.EVE isn't hard, just hard to read about

(hey, I actually have to work at something? Isn't there a cashshop here I can just buy it?)

6.  I like small ships, cloaking, exploring

(I like hiding and running)

7. just in case I feel like going on mission runs

(I do pve because I suck at pvp.)

8. War is boring, and so is combat

(I suck at pvp)

9. spend 5 years playing like me

( and once a year I sign on because ccp gives me a freebie 5 day guest pass.)

10. EVE is simply a game of time and of maintenance.

(I don't have the time to INVEST in EVE because I play 100 games and master none, but I have a 5 year old account and other bloggers are writing about EVE so I MUST whip out my EVE-PEEN!)

(Look I play eve too! And it's boring so....see you next year!)

PS:  EVE is a great Sunday afternoon game. Just like football, you can sit around with a beer daydreaming about power.

(I suck at PVP and football, that's why I don't do either.)

There you go, some BLOGPVP! @.@

BT, I just want to say thanks for being the yin to my yang. I love EVE, I really think it's the game I've been looking for, for awhile now. I am different than you, I played football in HS and can get down with the guys on a sunday or monday night game. I also love RTS games and to me EVE is like an RTS, alot of thinknig and with enough action where it counts.

I write this with much love, I am moving MMO MONEY! over to another site. I got an invite to write the "editorial" (and get paid for it!)

I think there always was some underlying competition between us, but not from my end. You were a big influence and always got me to think before I wrote something (Is beau going to pwn me on this?)

Keep in touch in the "blog-o-sphere"

Always a fan,

Frank

Mon Jul 27 2009 12:07PM Report
ummax writes:

As a female who attempted to play EVE and found it to be like this I agree with this assesment with a "but".  I think the pay to level up by logging out thing its probably the one thing that keeps this game afloat.   You can't stop playing it.  If you do you fall behind the curve and its impossible for a new player to ever be able to compete with a first year veteran.    So even if i were a guy who enjoyed caveman talk this problem alone would make me not to want to subscribe as a new player today.   

Mon Jul 27 2009 12:11PM Report
EricDanie writes:

 You know they implemented 2x training speed for new accounts right? Covers up till some million Skill Points, enough to get you started in what you want to do, choice that comes from your own experience as they reduced the skills you get from character creation and rather the New Player Experience is around introducing you to many possibilities of the game.

EVE isn't about being the highest level, it's about you finding something fun to do and sticking with it, that's basically the sandbox concept, endless possibilities but people will just pick one or two to do at a time.

Mon Jul 27 2009 12:31PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Frank, you are basically calling me a pussy. lol

 That's cool, but you completely missed where I said I DO pvp, and have, and that I do not ONLY own a small ship, but an outfitted Raven as well. I've warred, ran missions, done pretty much everything anyone else has. And successfully, too.

 I mean, I don't mind you calling me a girly man, but at least get the facts straight. And understand that calling out my "abilities" is essentially where the e-peen stuff comes from. I 'm just not into waving my around.

 But let me know what you get into, and grats on the editorial stuff! I have been thinking of qutting here, too, being that I blog so much on spouesaggro. Anyway, good luck man!

 Ummax, good point about being forced to continue paying to stay afloat. While I agree with Eric about you making your own way despite what skill level you are, you might start to feel a little bit like a slave to the "train" button.

 Beau

 

 

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 1:06PM Report
JGMIII writes:

I stopped playing MMOs a couple months ago but Eve onlinbe is the only game I would even bother with if I came back.

Imo, It's the one and only true mmo on the market today.

Mon Jul 27 2009 1:12PM Report
ericbelser writes:

Not sure if I am more insulted as an EVE player, male or gamer by that spew of drivel.

The EVE community is what you make of it, much like any MMO. Associate with the right people and you'll go weeks without seeing any epeen waving in chat.

As for women in EVE, you are simply clueless. Approximately 1/5 or so of the corp I was in were female (yes really, unless they had some pretty sophisticated voice masks when on voice chat)...yeah 2-3x that number were men with female charaters, but thats normal for MMOs.

Mon Jul 27 2009 1:15PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Eric:

 Just because you can hide out from chat and spend most of your time within your corp does not mean that most of the players spew THAT kind of drivel, the kind that I am refering to in my blog post.

 Also, your corp having some female members does not mean that EVE is filled with females, at all.

 Like I said, I think it is about one percent. Are you saying it is higher?

 

 Beau

 

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 1:55PM Report
eric_w66 writes:

Thought I'd post since I play Eve, and am named Eric too...

My 2 accounts are over 5 years old now, but I haven't played continiously over those 5 years (approx 30 mill sp on each main toon). The PvP in the game actually drives me away from it, as its not "player vs player", as "players vs player". I can't stand fights that are predetermined before a shot is fired. I like things like "skill" to matter, not just numbers.

But, I have other games to fill the PvP cravings I have. I play Eve to relax and do missions/mine/explore/build, etc.

Oh yes, my chars have never left the newbie corps either ;). Why pay taxes when I don't have to? :D

Mon Jul 27 2009 3:47PM Report
nunes_z writes:

whats up with this girl thing on eve? if you like gaming you have to know that most woman dont enjoy this kind of game so live with the idea that you will be playing with males! 

But in the case you need to play with girls go play the sims3 or whatever lol

cheers

Mon Jul 27 2009 4:19PM Report
MacAllen writes:

LOL!  Talk about ironic!  I *LOVED* Inktomi/Frank's response...it encapsulated Eve in ways nothing else could have.  His tone, his attitude, his humour are all 100% what Eve is about.

If you read Frank's post and think "Wow, that's a guy I'd love to hang out with!", you need to rush out and buy Eve because you will fit in.  Seriously.  And pick up some beers while you're out.

If you read his post and thought "Gee, what a d-bag!" then I'd avoid Eve like the plague.  Eve is/has lots of things, but in the end, Eve is BDT (bigger d*ck theory) in action.  The entire game is designed around the concept that the aggressor wins, the defender loses, and the passive is raped, and then mocked heartily (again, see Frank's post).

Any game that the devs themselves form a corp to rape the players should give you a clear impression of who should be playing it :)

LOL, too much fun :)

Mon Jul 27 2009 4:23PM Report
Inktomi writes:

 Beau,

ahhh, screw the facts. I was just aiming at straight out and out humor. pewpew! But you have said it in your podcast's (I think in the one where the waitress made you a balloon crab in a resturant) that you hated eve. 

But you don't have to explain to me, I'm just starting out but I know I'm going to be there awhile. Yeah, so they invited me to write mmomoney on some crunchy website. It;s actually just a big collaboration blog, but I get paid per post. I'm pretty happy about it, it's a start off. 

I'll be in touch.

@ MacAllen: Yes it was  alot of fun to write that, but please do realize that I might have been giving beau some noogies but I'll never camp a gate or pod someone for no good reason. And be the first to help someone new out down the road.

That's how I roll, I'm an ogre with a heart. 

There two type of men in this world, men who think they have a big one, and the ones that know it.

Ink

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 5:05PM Report
KenTsurugi writes:

Any game that encourages you to not play it in order to get better at it (meaning, the training portion), is not a real game to me. That's all I'm going to say about Eve Online.

Well, that, and it's an accountant's wet dream...

Mon Jul 27 2009 5:10PM Report
MacAllen writes:

Ink, I totally understand, trust me.  My Eve account was opened day 1.  I was in the alpha and beta and wrote tons of fiction on the forums before the game ever came out.  In all those years, I've probably seen 1 full year of playtime, if that, for one simple reason...the game is not my demographic. 

I started playing at release, hated the game, and retired.  Friends pull me back in, I play for a few months, something amazingly stupid happens, and I leave again.  I have friends in the Goons, had friends in Bob, the game's been around my life since before it started, but it's just not my style.

I know the guys that are successful in the game (billions of isk, 100+ million sp, etc), and they're all of the same "type".  That "type" is not an insult at all, many of my best friends are d-bags :P  The same comments you made about beau and his not playing football, many of my Scottish friends would say about you and your "pansy football" because they play rugby, a *REAL* man's sport :)

There are more than 2 types of men out here, but one specific type fits into Eve very well.  My biggest frustration is in how Eve is marketed.  The marketing is designed to lure in victims, not players.  If the marketing used truth in advertising and used a variation on the old Army slogan ("Join Eve, travel the galaxy, meet strange and new people, and gank them!") I'd be happier :)

Mon Jul 27 2009 5:22PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Guys, be sure to remember that my "sausage party"comments are half in jest. I am serious about the game needing females, but that applies to all games in general.

 WHY do I want females to play? Because I like variety in the player-base. Same reason I want games to have more options for disabled players, players from different races/backgrounds. It's all about variety. Call me crazy.

 But seriously, I do think there is something to be said for how dudes act when they are together, anonymous and in a video game. I am not by any means saying that all players act like this, just most that I have come across.

 That's a young dude thing, I understand that. Doesn't make me think it's cool, though, but anyone that doesn't know what I mean when I say that a bunch of 17-25 year old guys hanging together can act almost literally like cave-men is blind.
 

 Again, I am not knocking the game, if you notice. I am saying that if you enjoy slow action, role-playing like you are a powerful individual, or slow progression, go for it. I am not saying I do not. I am simply saying that I don ot like it enough to make me re-sub.

 

 Beau

 

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 6:05PM Report
MacAllen writes:

I prefer games that have a decent population of female players, they add a lot to the game.  Then again, I'm old, and in a high-challenge career, so the appeal of coming home to log into a sphincter-tightening game of "which gate will I be ganked at today" lost it's appeal decades ago.

That's the joy of having a diverse market...there are MMO's out here for all of us.  If you're the type of player who enjoys a game who's very mechanics support you and your friends sitting cloaked at a gate and murdering the unsuspecting and the only reward you get is the tears they sob, Eve is definately for you.  There's a corp in Eve called Tears Extraction Services and they are always hiring (no, I'm not kidding).  Evil is a growth industry :)

What I enjoy most about the dialog happening here is that Beau's post was a trifle...fluffy, but Ink's reply was DEAD ON how an Eve player should respond, and that just struck me as hilarious.  If I didn't know better, I'd say Beau scripted Ink's reply for just that purpose :)

I'm one of those old, wise players who can sit back and recognize a game that I don't like but is still a great game.  Eve is absolutely perfect for the players who enjoy it, I'm just not one of them.  So many kids out here today instantly condemn a game they don't like as sucking.  "Wow sucks!"  Really?  12 million players and it sucks?  It must be nice to have a small world centered on themselves :)

Mon Jul 27 2009 6:18PM Report
Zweid writes:

I started EVE back in 2004 when it was announced that Earth and Beyond would be shutting down. Currently I have around 80 million skill points and have billions in Isk, so I guess you could say I have been pretty successful in the game. Though I have to ask does that make me a jerk? One of the things I like to do is help out players new to the game. As long as they are polite, I and many like myself are more than happy to any questions they have and give them advice as to what to do. Not everyone who plays and enjoys EVE is an A-hole.

Mon Jul 27 2009 6:30PM Report
Inktomi writes:

 I think what MacAllen is doing is stereotyping EVE players (nicely) as a certain type of person that elevates in status on eve. And he chose to purposely wedge himself inside a conversation between two people and take sides. And had to drop big corp names for cred for a game he doesn't play anymore.

No epeen swinging here, thank you very much drive through.

Question: Isn't Ryzom based on the same slow progression, roleplay mechanic as EVE?  Some people have compared it to EVE less ganking.

Lastly, I played Rugby, with real englishmen thank you very much. I have no problem with the rough stuff, just took awhile to get used to passing BEHIND ME. Other than that I played all types of sports, you can say I am a man's man. But that doesn't make me a typical EVE player, makes me a person who likes to "get in the mix" with others. 

Thank you for your (random) input MacAllen, but this conversation is over. 

Mon Jul 27 2009 7:14PM Report
Delovely writes:

 Hi ^^

I think you highlighted some very good points which crossed my own mind but never were said by a "public" figure regarding females in games

People often think "Lets put some dolls or pretty stuff, 20k chatboxes etc in it and let the females drop in"

While Im not truly( Cryptive isnt it^^) part of the demographic I feel it has more to do with the slurs, attitude and language BUT also just the feeling and knowing there are other girls/women playing....sort of like to get rid of the stigma and shame you feel when youre just a lonely part of the community

They dont even have to play with each other for that

Thats one of the reasons I hestitate to play some games or continue with some because the demographics or just the behaviour of people isnt to my liking

So thank you for recognizing this :)

 

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 8:01PM Report
jrs77 writes:

There's a quote from a CCP-Dev:

"EvE Online wasn't designed to only look like a cold and harsh universe, it was designed to be a cold and harsh universe."

That pretty much sums it up.

If you don't like the cold and harsh universe, then this game simply isn't for you.
The gamemechanics enables us to kill and scam other players, if they like it or not. Scamming isn't even prohibited, but said to be a gamemechanic.

Girls are not attracted by this type of game alot, but the game will not change a single bit, to get more attractive for them. EvE will never be a happy Hello Kitty MMO.

And for the PvP to be slow.... well.... EvE is about fleet-warfare and not about 5 vs 5 arena-style combat.

EvE is a MMO for dedicated players, willing to invest tons of time for being succesful in the game.
Sure your skills train up, while you're offline, but skills count nothing, if you don't know how to use them, or don't have the funds to buy the ships to use these skills.

The argument that really makes me laugh everytime I hear it is: "New players willnever catch up with the veterans." hahaha... laughable!
You need 3 month to be on par with a veteran. 3 month to fly an Interceptor to it's full extend. A veteran can't do it better with 5 years of skilltime, he'll only have more knowledge, if you don't care to read all available stuff and go to the testserver trying things out.
Another 6 month to have all needed skills for a full Tech 2 fitted Battleship.
After 2 years there's nothing, that the 5 year old veteran can actually do better then you. He'll have only more races to choose from, but that's no advantage, as you can only fly one ship at a time.

And last but not least...

The speech used in EvE is only reflecting what the game is all about.
EvE Online is about dominance, control, power and war, so why do you wonder, when people wave around with their e-peen, talking about di**s, pu**ies and stuff like that?

Your blog only sais, that EvE Online is not the game you should play, so leave it at this and refrain from re-activating in the future.

Mon Jul 27 2009 8:14PM Report
tupodawg999 writes:

In a normal game there is the game and then there are the PvP servers. If you've played on FFA type PvP servers before then you know what to expect and you mentally prepare yourself. The times i've played on FFA type PvP servers I've even started to enjoy the full horror of the global chat and the relentless tide of aggression and hostility. It gets me all hyped up for fighting.

I can imagine that might not happen in EVE because it's one big PvP server. I could imagine logging into a game like EVE without mentally preparing myself the way I'd normally do.

Mon Jul 27 2009 8:43PM Report
beauturkey writes:

"Girls are not attracted by this type of game alot, but the game will not change a single bit, to get more attractive for them. EvE will never be a happy Hello Kitty MMO."

 This is exactly what I am talking about: the attitude that girls are ONLY attracted to "Hello Kitty Land" and that EVE is somehow non-stop PvP gankage that only MALES are attracted to.

 More players do NOT PvP in EVE than do, CCP stated it themselves a while ago. That's why they made some changes to "encourage" players to go out into 0.0 space.

 I played mostly in 0.0 space. It wasn't scary, just sparsely populated and boring. But within the space that everyone visited, especially the popular systems, was this kind of chatter that we are talking about.

"EvE Online is about dominance, control, power and war, so why do you wonder, when people wave around with their e-peen, talking about di**s, pu**ies and stuff like that?"

  You are actually backing UP my point that most players are like you, meaning DELUSIONAL.

 There is no power struggle, just a perceived one, just like pretending to be super-heroes back in grade-school.

 You have only backed up my point in that women might not want to play this game because of the LACK of women. Look at your stereotype of them.

 While I am here, let me point out for the 500th time that I am not saying EVE is a horrible game. I am saying that if you want to have one of those evenings like you did when you had 5 or 6 of your buddies over back in the day, and you sat around drinking beer and talking bad about every girl that came across the TV screen (although we all were nothing to be fawned over) then play EVE.

 EVE is, like I said, like watching football with your guy friends. Fart jokes, scratching of the crotches and burping. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, but some of these responses (and some that I have deleted) point exactly to what I am saying.

 Notice what the girls are saying here, as well.

 Beau

 

 

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 8:49PM Report
beauturkey writes:

"I can imagine that might not happen in EVE because it's one big PvP server. I could imagine logging into a game like EVE without mentally preparing myself the way I'd normally do."

 It's not one big PvP server, though. That's the point. :)

And even if I am mentally prepared for young men to act like they do does not mean that I am wrong in thinking that it makes me uncomfortable.

 Beau

 

Mon Jul 27 2009 8:51PM Report
Xurious writes:

 "....most large scale battles come down to just trying to survive while trying to kill someone else...

That's an epic statement that sums up pvp in every single game. Good thing he learned it after 5 years.

I didn't read most of the article, but after glancing across that line, I won't read the rest.

Mon Jul 27 2009 11:44PM Report
Wrayeth writes:

[quote]"EvE Online is about dominance, control, power and war, so why do you wonder, when people wave around with their e-peen, talking about di**s, pu**ies and stuff like that?
"

You are actually backing UP my point that most players are like you, meaning DELUSIONAL.

There is no power struggle, just a perceived one, just like pretending to be super-heroes back in grade-school. [/quote]
 

How nice that you find people who enjoy the struggle and the challenge of going head-to-head with other players delusional.  And if you think there is no power struggle, you obviously have no understanding of the game's basic concept.  FFS, a two-year-long war to destroy an alliance by the name of Band of Brothers just concluded with the dissolution of said alliance.  There were tens of thousands of players involved, and that is not a typo.

There's also struggle on the small scale.  You can fight to keep player pirates out of certain low security systems on a given travel route...or you can be the pirates in question, killing people and taking their hard-earned stuff.

Oh, and since I know you're going to bring it up, the fights are just about ganking or engaging when you outnumber your opponent.  The best fights, IMO, are the ones where you engage outnumbered and outgunned and come out on top through a combination of skill, strategy, tactics, and sometimes sheer luck.  I engaged 18 player frigates and destroyers solo in my absolution the other day, and barely escaped with my ship after killing several of them.

Tue Jul 28 2009 12:35AM Report
Wrayeth writes:

Damned typos.  I meant to type "the fights aren't just about ganking or engaging when you outnumber your opponent".

Tue Jul 28 2009 12:37AM Report
Inktomi writes:

 "swooping in for some more pewpew"

Yeah no girls beau! 

Explain lifeinlowsec.com an all girl pirate corp!

and if you are curious on how mynxee sounds then listen to her on http://www.galacticawatercooler.com/2009/07/25/gwc-podcast-176-eve-online-the-honorverse/

And they do mention a term on there that applies to Mr. Happy Birthday Hello EVE over here, it's called "Datafade". Someone who has played the game, left for a long time then returns to find everything different!

Thank you Dr. Datafade!

/warp drive active...

goodnite.

 

Tue Jul 28 2009 12:59AM Report
Jacinta writes:

Hmmm, my experience of EVE has included very little fart jokes, crotch scratching and burping.  Admittedly I've been in the same corp for the vast majority of my four years in game and the guys in it tend not to be that sort but still.  And yes, they are mostly guys.

Also, local chat in 0.0 is probably going to be dominated by horrible talk because much of the chat that goes on in local is between enemies.  That means that mostly they're going to want to irritate and annoy you into making a mistake.  Corp and alliance chat is very rarely like that in my experience.

In future I would prefer not to be tarred with the same brush as the insulting, boorish rabble you seem to think inhabits this game, contrary to my own experience.

Thank you

Tue Jul 28 2009 1:31AM Report
Blandin writes:

This was kinda fun to read.

For those that think there is only 1% of girls, rejoice, lastest CCP stats I could find was 4.41% (according to account information). They stated this when comparing the number of girls in the CSM candidates to the number of female players.

While there's no point to compare your organ's size with a girl, e-peen comparison works perfectly well. My feeling on that subject is that only the most battle hardened girls stayed, they're only a few.

The other type is the player's girlfriend that has been dragged to the game, not that many, but I know some.

I think eve already has much diversity, but for female players, I met people from everywhere, doing any job. People that stayed are either very patient and could whistand the first weeks of learning the game, others have some kind of strong will to get past the start, even if they curse a lot about the game's ('useless' is usually added at start) complexity.

 

For the interest of the game, I find industry and mining boring, not saying not interesting, just boring, it makes me sleep once I'm past the planning of the op or of the research/manufacturing. Grabbing a mining ship or an industrial makes me sleep in 15 mins max.

Fights wake me up. While PvP no more fills me with adrenaline like when I started the game, I still find it to be thrilling. Choosing the proper manoeuvers to get the best of your ship and handicap most your opponent, commanding a small squadron of suicidal players (they were following me at start, it qualifies them as this already), planning the traps... But, there's always the wait for the ennemy, it's annoying me as hell, once the trap is set and you know they will be coming, but you can't know when.

PvE, I think it's half boring half interesting. My best way to keep it interesting is to fly no BS in missions (I fly none at all). Using smaller ships and actually needing some good tactics to be able to win is good. Warping in a raven and spamming cruises is just way too boring. PvE is really only what you do of it, your ennemy will be predictable, so let's have fun with it or it will be boring as hell. Grabbing frigates and going to level 4s with friends is also a good way to do this, some will do it for the isk (because they can't do lvl 4 alone and earn much less isk), some for the standings, and others (like me) because it's fun to mess up with smaller ships in a lvl 4.

 

I started eve on september 2006, and I'm still not bored of it.

Tue Jul 28 2009 4:05AM Report
Mors.Magne writes:

In my alliance, Mostly Harmless, I've never come across a conversation about pe****s. I think this is a characteristic of the author's corp.

Tue Jul 28 2009 4:37AM Report
beauturkey writes:

1) "FFS, a two-year-long war to destroy an alliance by the name of Band of Brothers just concluded with the dissolution of said alliance."   What did this ever have to do with me or the hundreds of other players I had played with in the game? BoB never effected me, they only effected people that allowed them to effect them. I don't care if they owned the entire universe, I could still avoid them, fight them, make money, explore...do everything else I wanted to do and have done. That means you only perceived a power struggle, not me.

 2) "the fights aren't just about ganking or engaging when you outnumber your opponent".  I didn't say they were . I said they were boring most of the time. 

 3) "Explain lifeinlowsec.com an all girl pirate corp!"   I can easily explain them: they are a corporation of girls that play EVE. What does that have to do with the fact that the great majority (I said 99 percent) of the game are male?

 4) "Also, local chat in 0.0 is probably going to be dominated by horrible talk because much of the chat that goes on in local is between enemies."    I can see your point, but I did not say this chat only happens in low-sec space.

 5) "In my alliance, Mostly Harmless, I've never come across a conversation about pe****s. I think this is a characteristic of the author's corp."     No, it is a characteristic of the chat channel in every system I went to. This is based on recent return to the game and 5 years of playing.

 

Beau

 

Tue Jul 28 2009 7:27AM Report
beauturkey writes:

 By the way, thank you for all the comments guys and girls.

 :)

Beau

 

Tue Jul 28 2009 7:51AM Report
Weredexis writes:

Eve-online is a fictional world developped with a dark background story that only comes to live through its players. That, I think is
the basic function of any MMORPG. While I would prefer that every
player choose a first name and last name, that just isn't the case.

Eve is a game and as any game the chat in the game reflects who the
players are. What you missed though, beauturkey, is that you can
choose with whom you want to hang around and where you want to hang
around. I you're in a market hub, you will see the worst chat: spam
recruitment offers, scams, e-peen waving ... but just a few systems
away and local chat will be totaly silent. Also if you stay in the
rookie corporation you will be subjected to new players that may talk
like they are used to talk in their favourite first person shooter,
but not all of them will stay in eve. So the way you depict the eve
player base is quite exaggerated.

You miss the women in eve ? Yes, it would be great if there where
more. But please don't play the "eve-community is foulmouthed: they
use words like p***s and f*g" woman protector. You're not credible if
you follow up with such comments: [quote]Frank, you are basically
calling me a pussy. lol[/quote]

My quarrel with you is that your portrait of Eve isn't wrong, but very
onesided. To be honest, I feel you misunderstood some mechanics.

For instance, you want to crew ships with your friends. I guess that
the purpose of this would be to do something together while everyone
is in charge of a specific task. Newsflash: you can do that already
(actually you SHOULD do that). The whole skillsystem is in place to
prevent players from doing everything on their own and leverage their
abilities if they combine them. More then 100 ships with very
different roles give players great opportunities to work together.

You qualifiy the certificates as an "achievement" type system. It's
not and is not meant to be one. The certificates were introduced to
simplify the task of finding which skills you need for a certain
activity. We all know that skills just train on their own, so no
achievement in that.

[quote] Don't get me wrong, there have been times in war when I warped
in, targeted someone and killed them before they even came back from
taking a pee, and vice-versa. [/quote] You have not been in a war. You
have seen high-sec pvp. No wonder you think that war is dull.
High-sec wars stop the moment the corporation having initiated the war
stops paying the fee to uphold the war. Low-sec and null-sec war is
when you are attacked by any means possible, when you lose what you
have spend months to work for as a group of people, when morale
falters, when no place is safe ...

[quote] You are actually backing UP my point that most players are
like you, meaning DELUSIONAL.

There is no power struggle, just a perceived one, just like
pretending to be super-heroes back in grade-school.
[/quote]
Correct, there is only "pretending to be". Isn't that what role-play
is about ? Books, movies, videogames are all just fiction that the
reader, viewer, gamer chose to buy into and pretend it's real.

 

Tue Jul 28 2009 2:14PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 "the purpose of this would be to do something together while everyone
is in charge of a specific task. Newsflash: you can do that already
"

 This is not the same as piloting a ship together. Thats like saying that everyone in a raid acts as one player. In some grand way, sure. But not literally, which is what I am dreaming about in my example.

"You qualifiy the certificates as an "achievement" type system. It's
not and is not meant to be one
."

Then why would CCP state one of the reason to USE achievemnts as "..just wanting to wave your E-Peen around.." The certs are for, among other things, showing people what you have achieved. It doesn't matter HOW you trained the abilities, what matters (to some) is the sheer number of skill points.

 "You have not been in a war. You
have seen high-sec pvp. No wonder you think that war is dull
." 

 Actually, I have been in both. I think you might be taking way too much information from my post! :) I think war is dull because it is.

 "Correct, there is only "pretending to be". Isn't that what role-play
is about
?"

 Yes, that is what role-playing is about. The person I was pointing that out to seems to be under the impression that there is truly a power struggle going on, something that would qualify calling other players names and saying that girls can only play in a "Hello Kitty Online" type game. That is a delusion. There is nothing that serious about EVE, or any MMO.

 Thanks for the comments! :)

 

 Beau

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tue Jul 28 2009 3:17PM Report
Teala writes:

CCP says that approximately 4.5% of players are female.  So if we caculate that based on the number of active, paying subs(rounding that number to 300k), we can conclude that there are around 13,500 females that play EvE.   I am one of those females and so is my sis and so is another member of our corp who is married to one of the guys in our corp.    There are many girls that play EvE.   Just listen to EvE radio when Sam is on.   She sometimes has players call her via Skype and puts them on the air and many of them that call in are female and lots play in 0.0 space.   Go figure.  

Tue Jul 28 2009 4:35PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Teala:

 Again, I never said "NO females play EVE". I said 1 percent DO play EVE.

 I was off.

 By 3 percentage points. 

 I think you are missing the point, which was to say that EVE is filled in great majority by men, not women. I appreciate the numbers, but someone has already stated those and you gotta' admit that the difference between 1 and 4 percent isn't that bad, especially for just guessing off the top of my head. :)

 Compare it to a game like EQ2 which, according to SOE, has about half female players. Big, big difference.

 Beau

 

 

 

 

Tue Jul 28 2009 5:32PM Report
tupodawg999 writes:

"My feeling on that subject is that only the most battle hardened girls stayed, they're only a few."

Some females love environments that are 99% testosterone - a minority maybe but different strokes.

Wed Jul 29 2009 2:47PM Report
Taram writes:

Probably one of the worst blogs I've read about EVE in a long time.   Even in newb corps the stuff you are talking about isn't the norm, not by a long shot.  I just recently sold my mission running alt that lived in a newb corp for well over a year and while what you described DOES happen for the most part chat is actually fairly interesting.

As to PVP? Seriously?  If you think PVP is boring you are doing it wrong.  EVE's PVP may not be twitch based but it's the most in depth combat system I've played in any of the dozens of MMORPG's I've played.  Yes, it's strategic.  But once the waffles hit the skillet it's very tactical and also very in-your-face.  If you don't know what you are doing you will die... painfully... even if you DO know what you're doing you will die plenty as well.  Bottom line:  EVE PVP is amazingly deep and complex. 

Bottom line:  This post is terrible... and I can't believe MMORPG.COM is featuring it.

Wed Jul 29 2009 5:21PM Report
Inktomi writes:

 Beau,

I'm on my way to work, I just wanted to check in on this thread and read the outcome. 

I really think you are wrong on this one, beau. Teala is right, I've spent some time looking for that same info, plus I found an article on WHY women don't play EVE, an aritcle with HILMAH PETURSSSSON 

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/47262

Actually, women have outnumbered men in online games all the way back to 2000, maybe further. I've got the proof if you want.

Now this is why you are wrong: 13,500 women and 300,000 subscription.

Now take it into effect that most ACTIVE eve players have 2. Most of my corpsmates do. So let's cut that number in half to 150,000

Now the female percentage is 9%, hypothetically, Not 3 or 4 and definately not 1% so you are way off. 

And when I logged in tonite, let's say on a given night, is anywher between 44,000 to 49,000 people. Now apply the female number again: that's 27% (hypo)

Farcry from 1% isn't it?

Just admit you were talking out of your neck without doing serious research and you were wrong. I alway admit when I am wrong, and there is always someone there to point it out.

Maybe you don't play enough to really meet any of the female population, you do bounce around alot.

 

Thu Jul 30 2009 6:33AM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Well, the only problem is that you are saying that while the rest of the population should be halved because of the double accounts, you are not halving the females accounts.

 Why wouldn't they have 2 as well?

 I understand your point, though, and here right now I am fully admitting that I was wrong about my exact percentage points. I said 1 percent, but it seems to be slightly more.

 Even at 4 percent means that in a party of 100 guys, there would be only 4 girls there. I think you would agree that this MIGHT have an effect on how the men behave when they are together, and how they behave when a woman finally comes into sight.

 Once again, I am not saying that ALL of the EVE players act this way, just (IMO) the majority.

 I am also not saying that this is a BAD WAY to act, just a curious way. I do not pass judgement on guys getting together for Sunday football, and in fact enjoy it some myself (not football, knitting sessions, but still you get what I mean.)

 So, all in all, even with talking out of my neck, my point was that there are few females playing EVE. We have all agreed on that, I think.

 Why they don't play is still mostly a mystery, but not very many people have given any ideas on that and instead are just trying to argue very specific small numbers.

 

 Beau

 

Thu Jul 30 2009 8:47AM Report
Inktomi writes:

 Why argue specifics? It seemed important to argue specifics about the amount of money that Maple Story made in 2005 vs Blizzards popularity over the years after that.

Remember that blog?

And FYI I did halve the womens accounts, I halved all. You can't halve one player though, here lets look on paper.

300,000 divided by 2 ( means men and women ) = 150,000

But you did say that corp the hellcats was only 1% of the pop of eve, (I said 99 percent) was the rest being male.

I'm splitting hairs becuase mine got split, you talked about a generalization and then defended it. And BTW, that article I posted above contain a quote, "Our research in to this, by hiring more girls into CCP and asking them what they want to do, shows that they want to be people. They don't want to be spaceships." - CEO of CCP. That should give light on why women don't play eve.

Honestly, since you wrote this I've ran into a few women on EVE, and remarkedly so, no knuckledraggers as you mentioned in your article. Noone I see in any chat talks about any of the stuff you mentioned.

If I am beating a dead horse I am sorry, It just seems that this article rubbed me the wrong way. Personally, I don't talk about a game as I am playing "unless I am playing it" Not just popping in every 12 months or so, saying, "hmmm, no" and leaving. I could do that with FFXI, I still have 2 lvl 65's there from 2002, but I always speak about FFXi in past tense.

Then the female "observation" you made, even though all data says that women outnumber men 2:1 online. That's including online games as well.

As far as your manhood, I was really joking. I don't think you are a "gurley mahn" I was breaking your chops as I would to one of my local friends. And that's how I will leave this off.

Thu Jul 30 2009 3:06PM Report
tupodawg999 writes:

I think all niche games should be defended to encourage more -whether it's Hello Kitty Online or Sullon Zek in space.

Thu Jul 30 2009 4:10PM Report
Arcken writes:

Heh Sullon Zek, down with <Hate>

Sun Aug 02 2009 12:20AM Report
IAMSCIENCE writes:

 ...after reading your other posts, like it or not, Inktomi is obviously spot on...

Oh and, bad music? Love to know what you listen to my freind.....

Tue Aug 11 2009 6:54PM Report
Torak writes:

EVE online = microsoft spread sheet on a space backdrop.

Dude, why do even bother?

Sat Aug 15 2009 6:00AM Report

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