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Spouse Aggro!

I blog at www.spouseaggro.com, write for www.ablegamers.com, run www.mmovoices.ning.com and post all over the net. HOWDY!

Author: beauturkey

Darkfall's "surprise", What side of the fence I'm on, and outdoor cats.

Posted by beauturkey Wednesday June 24 2009 at 10:31PM
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1) Darkfall: No one should be surprised that the Darkfall developer(s?) have hit you up for more money. I don't care if they are charging you for the North American server, transfers or just because they are poor. I don't care if they are charging you because they are just greedy. Here's the rub: in the world of independent games (and a good deal of the time in the Big Leagues) stuff like this happens.

It's 50 bucks. 50. Ask your parents for a loan.

darkfall_logo

The dev's have already given you a game that, despite all gripes about it, has done more for "meaningful PVP" then most games. All games. Well, not EVE, unless you add on a cash shop. They need your cash. Pay it or leave it. But please, for the love of all things hardcore, don't do what thousands of others have done for many independent games: whine and bitch WHILE you play the game. Just leave it. Come back to it after a while, see how the changes are going. Don't give it, and the forums, that air of a rotting, festering player-base that seems to just HATE it's own game. Isn't that weird? People treat games like they would a significant other that, deep down, they wish would just go away?

Look at how I did it: I played it, had some fun and then stopped having fun. I walked away without saying anymore. The game isn't my cup of tea, but I will try it again after it gets fleshed out some more. I don't WANT it to close down.

Either pony up the petty cash to play this game you say you love or move on. Despite "evidence," I seriously doubt that the developer (s?) are/is a crook.  I know it's fun to think he is, but hopefully the adults out there know that the dev is just a guy that wanted to make a FPS that allows cursing. But, making games is hard. And making games costs money.

Just pay it, or the game will go away. Then all you will have left to gripe about is how the game failed. And that's just boring. And welcome to the world of separate publishers, expensive servers and independent games.

2) Who do I support: I have been called a fan-boy (fanboi?) a million times, a brown-noser at least several thousand. Usually, the people saying it have no idea that my "loyalties" have never lay with one game, or with one community. I have always played a million games, but twice now have been deeply involved with specific communities.

So, do I normally side with the developers or with the community?

The developers, hands down. I always do. Even if they are wrong. Even if they are mean, and say mean things and do mean things like nerf classes. I do it because we, as the consumer, always have the upper hand. We alone control, especially in the MMO market, what succeeds and what does not. With that kind of power comes the ability to simply walk away from a game that does not satisfy you, and into the digital arms of another. Trust me, there are a million MMO's out there...surely you can find at least a few more that you will find fun. If not, I would hate to see your music collection.

3) Loose cats: If anyone wants to try, they can convince me that letting your cat outside, off leash, out of your yard and without a collar on is somehow normal, decent, smart or responsible. There is no way it is, period. While I think your cat WOULD be happier on it's own in the wilds of your neighborhood, I also think that scraping your cats brains off the side-walk because you wanted him to "feel free to come and go" is something you asked for by letting your cat loose. (Sorry, Internetz, I meant LOSE.)

Have a good one, guys, and be sure to send me suggestions for weird games to play on the stream!

Beau Turkey

Mystik86 writes:

Wholeheartedly agree.

Thu Jun 25 2009 5:35AM Report
WeaponX writes:

Aggree, I was looking forward to this game and it did not do it for me, but once NA-1 opens I might give it another shot.

Thu Jun 25 2009 9:29AM Report
NovaRyu writes:

fanboi

Thu Jun 25 2009 9:33AM Report
JonMichael writes:

So what you're saying is because they're an indie company, we should pay them more money, allow them to furnish a half complete game filled with exploits, continue with poor communication and tell half-truths... thus encouraging more indie companies to practice business like this?  No way!  Why should AV be allowed to practice business like that when most small business would never survive?  I own a small business and wish I could tell all my customers that we need money and therefore are going to charge them twice what they originally thought they were going to pay!  Allowing AV to thrive in the condition they're in is only going to make future indie games just like DF is... a mess.

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 9:35AM Report
fldash writes:

Ridiculous.  What is Aventurine paying MMORPG.com bloggers?  Between you and Paragus, it sure seems that way.  This company is a joke.

Thu Jun 25 2009 9:37AM Report
miagisan writes:

sorry, but if a developer screws over their playerbase, lies about it's features, releases a buggy/unfinished/hackable game, i am supposed to swallow it up, say thank you, and pucker up more money to play on a different server?

The developers are milking you for every penny. Wouldn't surprise me if next quarters big update is an item shop to add to the subscription, then after, you will be scratching your head on how you al ever insulted SOE lol

Thu Jun 25 2009 9:49AM Report
Arra_Jinx writes:

At first I didnt agree, but in the end this is only what EU players have had to deal with for years. I wish AV the best of luck and will check on the game when transfers come around.

Thu Jun 25 2009 10:14AM Report
Divious writes:

Your fact as you boldly call it is just that, yours not the world's or the internets, to more accuratly reflect on an experience that is rewarding or at least enterteining for a time, you need to now wht makes it so, and the only way to find out is experience and comparision. Otherwise youll end up been biased.

Thu Jun 25 2009 10:21AM Report
ctrob67 writes:

Fact is that Tasos promised something that is not in his power to deliver.  A promise that a lot of us thought pretty foolish to make in the first place (for other reasons).

AV clearly don't have the rights to operate DFO in the states and hence no the right to transfer characters.  The company that owns the rights in the states clearly, and fairly, wants to be able to collect revenue for the people playing its game.

I'm presuming they've negotiated some concession to allow the transfers at all.  It was probably a mistake to allow NA players on the euro server (given the apparent nature of the licensing arrangement). 

This situation is certainly no worse than other games.  You pay to change servers in WoW (in general) but only within a region - you can't transfer from EU to NA, eg.

It's just a further demonstration of AV's competence.  But I don't have much sympathy for the players either.  People were literally fighting to get in at launch.  I'm also bemused by the way people regard playing DFO as 'work'.  You should be playing for fun.  New servers are fun.  It only gets boring once everyone is maxed out and the game stagnates.

Thu Jun 25 2009 10:47AM Report
moozaad writes:

EU players deal with this all the time... WoW, CoH... anything with regional servers that gets launched in the US first and not other regions for x amount of months whilst they finish translations. Enthusiastic players will always jump the gun and play US until their regional version is launched, yet you don't hear them crying about it like a bunch of 13 y/o spoil US brats.

If you're willing to wait the 3 months for the xfer, then you don't have to pay anything at all. Problem solved.

If you won't play on EU-1 for another 3 months and aren't willing to pay, you've obviously not that into the game so STFU and jog on. Problem solved.

Thu Jun 25 2009 10:50AM Report
beauturkey writes:

Guys, I already made my point: if you don't want to pay it, LEAVE.

 I didn't say: pay it or not.

 This is really simple, either you pay it or you do not. I don't care what your reasons are. Just walk way. No big deal, I promise you. You have to make a decision as a player, not me.

 I have never said "..you are a jerk if you do not pay them extra money.." I am simply saying that you cannot change the fact that you have to pay extra money. Protesting it, canceling your account, none of that will prevent you from having to pay extra money.

 It's really simple.

 

 Beau

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 11:02AM Report
beauturkey writes:

 OOps. I meesed up, I meant that I did say "pay it or not." Where's an edit button?

Thu Jun 25 2009 11:03AM Report
beauturkey writes:

Also, why would you think that I am getting PAID by Nectarine if I tell you that you have two choices. You should already KNOW this.

 You mean that in my lil blog post I said "PLEASE pay this money, PLEASE, Nectarine is my favorite company! PLEASE PAY IT."

 Where do people GET this stuff from? lol

 

 Beau

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 11:05AM Report
Suvako writes:

I agree with the basic premise, unfortunately I think AV chose the wrong approach, at least for me. 

I bought the game, played it for a while, and cancelled, fully intending on reactivating when NA-1 was launched so I could jump in fresh.  If they had just launched NA-1, they'd have my renewal at least for a few months.  Instead of generating @ $15 x a few, they are getting nothing more from me. 

I do wish them the best of luck.  The game has promise, and if it wasn't for an inescapable feeling of being taken advantage of, I'd be playing it again once NA-1 goes live.

Thu Jun 25 2009 11:10AM Report
beauturkey writes:

Well, Suv, that's the deal: you have to weigh how you feel about it and just make a decision. Which you did! :)

 I would never get the feeling I am being taken advantage of, though, being that I know that in indie gaming companies sometimes need cash. Lot's of cash.

 My wager is that this is truthfully the result of a dumb publishing deal, but of course no one is forcing any player to stay.

 Oh well, I am sure we will just hear lot's of griping about it.

 

 beau

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 11:14AM Report
WOWthatsucks writes:

will the eu servers still have enough players to epic siege. sounds like its gonna be a waste land?

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:03PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 I don't know. This is something similar to how it went down in Spellborn. Who knows though, I'm interested to see!

 

 beau

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:09PM Report
Infalible writes:

Effectively, what you are saying is, "put up or shut up." That is one of the most ignorant things to suggest a paying customer should do in the world.

When you purchase a product and you find it is not how it appears on the tin, you have a very clear right to complain. In fact, you have a responsibility to complain. You do not put up an shut up. You ask why things aren't how you were told they would be and you continue to complain until the company responsible gives you a reasonable explanation.

The point I am trying to make here is that paying customers (who continue to pay) have every right to complain and voice their concerns in pretty much any way they chose. They are paying the bills. Your suggestion that paying customers should either put up with it or shut up and work around it is completely outrageous. AV have implemented another piss poor example of ethics in order to feed their pockets and their PAYING CUSTOMERS do not like it. As such, their paying customers have every right in the world to complain.

If they did not, it would show AV that their actions in various situations are correct and perfectly acceptable... which they are not... in any way. By complaining, you at least force them to acknowledge the fact that they are doing something that is wrong.

If you can provide any reasonable excuse for your ridiculous viewpoint, I'd love to hear it. At the moment, this blog post just screams ignorance.

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:15PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Yes, I am saying "put up or shut up."

 This isn't something like the IRS, or the Dept. of Transportation, or even the electric company (although even with that you have alternatives.) This is a video game.

 I don't care if you complain till your head turns blue. Is it going to stop them from charging you, or wanting to?

 Not in any way.

 Pay it, or not. That's it.

  There are other games out there. Leave DF for a while..protest with your feet, then maybe they'll change their minds. Trust me, though, "complaining" will be nothing to the dev's but background noise.

 Beau

 

 

 

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:20PM Report
Ryukan writes:

Sorry, but even after quitting Darkfail, coming by every now and then to poke at it is just too morbidly fun :P

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:30PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Don't be mean! lol

 Seriously, though, I have heard about an upcoming patch that might add more fixes and PvE stuff. We'll see, if it's good, I will re-sub!

 

 Beau

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:34PM Report
jaxsundane writes:

I mostly agree with this post but have to add that in regards to ALWAYS siding with the devs is a load of crap,with some of the unscrupulous types that have headed games lately it is unfair to just assume due to some percieved right of gamers that all things that happen are the players fault or something they can control Gaute and FC duped people and SOE has had it's fair share of unfair practices as well but in all it does tend to get that way in games.

I would say I have a rep for a bit of bashing but can say I've never bashed a game I continued to play and I don't bash games just because they aren't fun(WAR) but from companies we need more honesty there seems to be some unwritten rule that if they tell the truth all will go bad which I think needs to start to change in gaming.

Thu Jun 25 2009 12:53PM Report
Bhagpuss writes:

People complain for two main reasons: firstly it's fun and secondly it sometimes works.

In MMO space the perpetual flow of complaints you hear in open channels in all games and read on forums everywhere is mostly just a form of entertainment in itself.  I live in the U.K. and moaning is considered a national pastime here. It doesn't really indicate a deep or serious disatisfaction, much less an expectation that anything will change. It's just kind of fun to do.

On the other hand, having worked for two large, well-known businesses in the last couple of decades, my personal experience is that  focused complaints addressed to the right person can get changes made. You're right that that's not going to come from unfocused moaning on the boards, and it can be difficult to affect the actions of small, privately owned companies where it's basically owner's choice how things are done. All of us, however, could quote numerous examples where pressure groups of players caused changes, sometimes major changes, to MMOs. Only a few weeks back EQ2 rescinded and rolled back their entire combat revamp, a very major game change that the dev team was apparently convinced was essential, because of pressure from the playerbase.

Happens all the time, so you can't really say it's not worth having a good old moan; it's fun, it makes you feel better and it might even get you what you want.

Thu Jun 25 2009 1:10PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 The reason I say "always" is the same as if we are talking about a war between you and a pile of ants.

 It's a given as to who would win that war: you.

 You control the destiny of the game, not only because if enough of you get together with the same mind, you could LITERALY shut down the game.

 But even if it just you, leaving the game has the same effect. You win.

 

 Beau

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 1:11PM Report
japo writes:

Look at how I did it: I played it, had some fun and then stopped having fun. I walked away without saying anymore.

==========================================

 

Ummm....no you didn't "just walk away".  You just wrote an entire article on how you quit, why you quit, and what might or what will bring you back.

 

You just did what many other posters do.  You quit and then gave your comments about it.

 

You should never have put that line in this article....it makes it read like every other "I quit and this is why" post.

Thu Jun 25 2009 1:31PM Report
oTinyo writes:

Hey Beau :) I used to read your good posts on the Vanguard forums :)

I'm not defending DF's devs in any way but I do want to point out to people that charging for a client for a different zone is totally normal practice in MMOworld.

I've known people that played in the US WoW and had to buy, yes buy, a new client to play the EU servers. I think that because this usually happens to EU peeps who've been playing a NA game, few EUers are shocked by this but NA's are up-in-arms because they've never had to do it before.

There are usually different publishers and sometimes different clients where different zones are updated on different days/times. I understand that there maybe legal ramifications too, in that you have to buy a client for that zone if you wish to play a game based in it.

It was made very clear to US players that they were playing an EU version of the game and that a NA version would follow later.

Lastly, it's become pretty clear that haters have jumped on this and given the story more legs than it truly has. By haters I mean people who've never played DF or who played, didn't like it and for some inane reason (just like Vanguard) hang round shouting it at anyone who dares express an interest.

Anyway, just wanted to post this. It's not such a big shock to me.

Oh...and thanks for all the great VG Dev interviews over the years :)

Thu Jun 25 2009 2:01PM Report
Khalathwyr writes:

Exactly, japo. Glad you pointed that out as I was about to. I guess you could say turkey wrote about it twice, if you consider the drama filled, Days of Our Lives-esque written "I'm leaving you, honey" first blog and now this one basically telling people not to voice their opinions about suspect actions on the part of AV.

Yeah, we get that indie companies need cash. What business doesn't. That said, to try to sit here and defend how AV is doing it by telling people not to complain and voice their opposition? Sorry, but that doesn't fly. No matter the scope, from concentration camps to theocratically rigged elections to simple entertainment, standing around silent is never a good route to fixing processes that are broken.

Oh, and as for siding with the companies...beautiful...just...beautiful. You are now officially a part of the problem. Well, I suppose after your self proclamation of blind devotion to all game companies, right or wrong, nets you an industry job and you can leave the lowly ranks of us gamers behind, then you'll truly be a part of the problem. Now...you're just a collaborator, lol.

;P

Thu Jun 25 2009 2:12PM Report
gatheris writes:

more good money after bad - - - though i agree with your premise of pay or leave i'm rooting for the leave - - - this sort of thing just pisses me off

the NA players helped pay for DFOs beta - rooting out so many exploits and bugs along with basically showing Aventurine how players are going to play their game - - - the reward is to purchase the game again so they can play on the server they were promised would be theirs if they ponied up on EU1

i don't care what kind or size of company it is they need to be reminded where their money comes from - - - seriously, i hope every current NA player stops their subscription (and yes, bitch about on the DFO forums - it's loads of fun to read)

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 3:12PM Report
papasody writes:

Let me give you digital hugs for the comment regarding loose cats.

People who wouldn't dream of letting their dog roam around the neighborhood seem to think it is ok to just put their cat out,, as if that weren't also annoying to their neighbors and potentially dangerous for the cat.

Le sigh.

Thu Jun 25 2009 4:41PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 I think a few of you are reeeaaalllly not understanding me.

 a) This one is about the players, not the game.

 b) I am not "siding with the company." Even if I were: WHAT problem? Are you talking about Nectarine asking you for more money? That's a problem?

 This is very, very simple. You either pay the money or you do not play. I will promise you, like I have already said, that they will not notice a lick of your complaining.

 The only thing any size company will notice is the lack of business.

 My "siding" with the company was just as I put it: siding with ants compared to giants. If you didn't notice, I am saying that you, the consumer, are the giants. The company has N O defense against you. So, let;s just say I am rooting for the lil' guy, (the COMPANY, get it?) so that they might not only make a great product for you, the CONSUMER, but that it is good enough for you to stick around playing it.

 And please, you really need to think hard..think HARD about this: In my statements in my blog, statements like "I don't care if they are charging you because they are just greedy" do you see a blind devotion to a company?

 I have covered this on the VG forums a million times, and will cover it here. It's basic stuff. You either:

 a) whine and cry about paying extra money (notice I am not saying if that is a good or bad practice),

 b) you continue to play the game, you give the developers advice that not only sticks out (due to actually being thought out and constructive),

 c)  you pay the money and get on the business of playing the game.

 d) Cancel your account, and take yourself out of their pockets.

 That's it. There is no discussion here. Shake your fist while playing your Nu Metal, I don't care. They won't hear you. Note that if you are continuing to pay these developers, WHILE you disagree with what they are doing, YOU are actually part of the problem.

 Jiminy Christmas, it's more Emo here than on the VG forums. lol

 

 Beau

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 5:53PM Report
seabeast writes:

After paying for a game it is not "all over" when a player unsubs. Why? because the player invested in the game, however small their part. To partake in "put up or shut up" concept would knock this site off the internet cause....no one would be around to say, "hey, this or that game sux." 

Thu Jun 25 2009 7:08PM Report
seabeast writes:

It's 50 bucks. 50. Ask your parents for a loan.

Yep, the DF community will be hitting up a lot from mommy and daddy. I only ask if the writer did the same...go figure!

Thu Jun 25 2009 7:46PM Report
Khalathwyr writes:

Ha ha, love it!  Where to begin.

If multiples of people are reeeaaallly not understanding you, and this seems to be happening on a large scale, then maybe, just maybe, you aren't expressing yourself very well.

A) Got that, along time ago. It was pretty clear you were taking aim at the players (of which I'm not one; past player, sure, a week and a half was all I could take, the pvp was ok though).

B) Ginseng. Try it. You shouldn't have to though, as your second "point" clearly states in your words that you side with developers over community (not that I'm saying community is always all that great, but *shrug*). As far as part of the problem it's in reference to supporting the developers, (as you just said you did in #2, right or wrong) and letting them continue to think that they can do anything, even things shady, and get away with it. Ironically, I believe that's a point you were trying to make that players should just not buy their products or cancel accounts if unhappy. I agree. They also should not be sitting back all smug telling others not to voice their opposition as well.

As for blind devotion...when you make the written statement that you side with developers, right or wrong...that a very clear definition of position and yeah, that's blind devotion. The statement you outline about being "greedy" doesn't require "thinking hard"... that quoted portion in your reply can be seen as a statement of endorsement of "nectarine's" billing practices ("I don't care" shows indifference meaning that while you don't condone it, you don't admonish it either) than as a statement to illustrate you aren't blindly devoted to them. If you are or are not, I don't particularly care. I'm just pointing out and commenting on the words you wrote and the sentiments you conveyed on your blog.

As for the emo, sorry, that bit of personal name calling (and I take it it's at me as most of your replys look to closely address statements I made) just won't float. If you can't handle someone...well, alot of people disagreeing with what you write, don't write it. Calling people "emo" in such a manner...well, isn't that pretty emo in itself? I guess that's just the "easy out" when you don't have a solid point to stand on. ;)

Khal

Thu Jun 25 2009 8:12PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 If you think that what I have said means that I am blindly devoted to anyone, then you are wrong.

 Doesn't matter. Pay the money or not.

  Of course, take issue with the fact that I am simply telling you the truth. There is no gray area or room for discussion.

 

 Beau

 

 

 

Thu Jun 25 2009 10:36PM Report
Einstein-DF writes:

Darkfall's always fun to argue about!

Fri Jun 26 2009 12:29AM Report
sfraden writes:

Mmmmm... odd.  Your blog is simply odd.  In this day and age, $50 is too expensive to waste a second time for the same fucking thing you already have. 

You seem to think AV gets to hide behind the INDIE shield, and somehow that makes everything they are doing ok.  Business is business my friend, and AV just started to assemble their coffin with their asinine decisions.

You go play, you go spend hundreds of dollars to enjoy the world.  ME? I gotta pay rent and put food on the table, so paying a second time or a transfer fee is simply not an option.  But then it seems you like to have companies walk all over you.  I guess its true theres a sucker born every minute...

Fri Jun 26 2009 8:02AM Report
Phelcher writes:

Aventurine ran threw $11 million bucks, making this pisspoor game, now they need a cash influx to help pay for the NA servers, yet what did they do with the $500k they made off box sales..?

 

Tasos Falmbouras is a complete imbicile. He's so incompetent and transparent, it humorous reading his next statements. Becuase we already know what they'll contain.

Darkfall is dead...  October we will see them file for bankruptacy!!

 

Fri Jun 26 2009 8:57AM Report
beauturkey writes:

sFraden:

"You seem to think AV gets to hide behind the INDIE shield, and somehow that makes everything they are doing ok."

 Wow, dude, you have not read s ingle word of what I have typed.

 Let's break it down for you, real slow-like:

 1) I am not playing. I tried it out and didn't like it.

 2) That means I am not paying the money.

 3) I have not once said that what they are doing is "OK." Understand this point, if you can: they are just DOING. This is what companies, especially many idie companies, must DO.

 Insulting me, although a very poor attempt, is only proving my point. You have done nothing with your post. The only thing, it seems, that you might do that is constructive is taking yourself out of the game.

 I'm wondering if some of you even have any idea what you are typing. Where am I saying that the company is perfect, good, right and wonderful?

 Here is a series of facts that you must accept as truth:

 a) You are born.

 b) You grow old.

 c) You die.

 Now, you can argue about it, whine about it, make posts about it and write poetry about it. You can protest it and fight it, but we all will die sometime.

 As sure as our death, you will have to simply make a decision to pay or not. This has nothing to do with the big bad evil company that has made poor decisions, this is about YOU, the player.

 Some of these comments have already proven my points.

 

 Beau

 

 

 

 

Fri Jun 26 2009 10:19AM Report
namelessbob writes:

Terrible write up, and did nothing but annoy at least me how much AV is a bunch of thieves.

Fri Jun 26 2009 9:03PM Report
sfraden writes:

Alright, I'll call you out... Lets go on this:

"I don't care if they are charging you for the North American server, transfers or just because they are poor."

You dont care? Translation: 'I dont care if they have bad business practices'

"Here's the rub: in the world of independent games (and a good deal of the time in the Big Leagues) stuff like this happens."

Thats the shield Im talking about, you are telling everyone to accept it as is because they are INDIE developer. Thats complete bullshit.


"It's 50 bucks. 50. Ask your parents for a loan."

What parents? I am the parent! I can barely hold my own in this damn recession, so $50 is a huge deal, especially a second time.

"Just pay it, or the game will go away. Then all you will have left to gripe about is how the game failed. And that's just boring. And welcome to the world of separate publishers, expensive servers and independent games."

Again, business is business, and bad business is bad business. There is no excuse for bad decisions. Nothing to hide behind. Sorry, I will not accept AV's bullshit on this one.

"The developers, hands down. I always do."

Even when there wrong? Even when they are raping you for your cash? Even when they ignore players? Mmm...


Sorry dude, but I dont take shit from any company.

 

Sat Jun 27 2009 9:47AM Report
Ajmags writes:

This is not about the game this is about horrible customer service or lack there of.

If these idiots just communicated with their player base and kept them informed every step of the way rather than droping bombs on us, people might be more sympathetic and more might even fork over the 50 bucks. 

The only reason why they cant allow a direct move on launch is because of all the exploiters and cheaters the game has produced with no ramifications. But thats NO EXCUSE not to let people who purchased the EU game a "FRESH" character at launch without having to pay again for the same game. These idiots had to know (or know there was at the very least the possibility) they would charge another 50 bucks for the NA launch, but they kept that Information from their players WHY WHY WHY >> Explain to me WHY ..... 

Everyone knows full well the Mercs and many guilds like them, have cheated beyond belief yet they are all still in the game because they are the free advertizement for AV . AV knows they cheat yet leaves them in the game because  They make the Pretty you tube videos. They were all in Beta and they used the beta to exploit the hell out of the game and  when it released. Think the Mercs didnt know about the Acid Pools ? Wonder why they didnt /bug that little gem?They were NOT in beta to help make it a great game or help fix bugs they were in beta to get the jump on you and kick your ass because they could not do it without being cheats. They abused it for their own benifit yet AV lets these cheats stay in game when its Obvious they have skills that should have taken months & months longer to accumulate, rigor is a great example among many others.

The reason I brought up the Mercs is because it was a running arguement about weather NA should be a fresh start . But if AV said no transfers and just a fresh start how could they then justify charging everyone 50 bucks ? And how could they keep their poster boys the cheating mercs if they had to now skill up legitimately? Its bad enough they are making their loyal player base wait 3 months and charging a transfer fee but those folks just stand at a wall inside a player city further beefing up their skills to the point they will march into NA and demolish the people who have 3 months to skill up in a real way. Which means they wont come close to the cheats.

When games like AOC had to trim down their servers due to their failures did they charge ?? Nope . As messed up as that game was at least they did not spit in the face of the player base . They communicated and let people know what was going on.

Take a look at Mortal Online and read their forums. There is alot of stuff that will not be in game at launch but if you will notice the players are not going berserk, they are happy to BE INFORMED. They wont log in on launch day and get spit on. They will log in on launch day and know exactly what to expect. They will either like the game or dislike the game but either way they will not have been lied to.

AV Screw up > SOE Screw up with NGE

Congratulations AV you now own the top spot as worst gaming company in the world.

Sat Jun 27 2009 12:47PM Report
Ajmags writes:

Those of you who know AV  acted in a shady way yet still buy the game have no self respect for yourself or your fellow gamers. Allowing companies to shit all over you just opens the door for others to do the same. Its time people unite and stop this maddness and hold these gaming companies responsible.  

Sat Jun 27 2009 12:57PM Report
beauturkey writes:

 Seems like some of you still think I am saying that the company is  GOOD for making such a dumb mistake.

 I'm glad you don't take sh*t from a company. I didn't say you should. I said to take it or not.

 You realize that you just said, in a more flowery way, that you are not paying the money. Again, you have made one of the choices that I put forth, which is to NOT pay the money.

 I guess this is still a very complicated issue for some of you, while it is not complicated at all. If you think the company is "bad" "corrupt" or "stupid" then do not pay.

 How is that complicated?

 

 Beau

 

Sat Jun 27 2009 10:32PM Report
Ajmags writes:

Beau

 The decision of people who do not want to play the game anymore (and give their reasons for it ) does not revolve around you or what you think . They have stated their opinions why or why not they play and thats about it. Maybe your the one who should just "move on"

Sun Jun 28 2009 12:48AM Report
beauturkey writes:

 You do realize that you are on my blog, right? You, and the rest, have visited me

 Make your own blog and post about it. I will comment on that, if you'd like.

 

 Beau

 

 

 

Sun Jun 28 2009 9:33AM Report
kosdeth writes:

People need to make examples of these kind of thieving game companys. If you make something that isnt worth the disc you print it on and try to profit off of it , well then you deserve the ridicule and shit that people talk about your game.

As a consumer of videogames I encourage people to openly speak of there negative experiences with poorly constructed games so that others don't have to waste there hard earned cash. And then maybe, just maybe, future companies will be weary of realising unfinished junk.

 

Sun Jun 28 2009 11:02PM Report
kosdeth writes:

*releasing*, lol

 

Sun Jun 28 2009 11:09PM Report
KenTsurugi writes:

To be quite honest, this whole blog could have been summed up with the Latin phrase "caveat emptor". It would have saved a lot of headache.

Also, it says in your title that you would share what side of the fence you are on, but it only seems to be the "do or do not" side, which is... which side of the fence, exactly? It seems like you're located on top of the fence, and you're swaying back and forth like a monkey or something.

Also, if you support the developers, why do you say we have the power? Wouldn't that be considered supporting the player base, or are you just saying that you want the developers to listen, so you support them? I need a bit of clarification on that part, seeing as how you, once again, seem to be going both ways with this statement. I don't know if you're saying that, since we have so much power, they don't need you to support them? I figure with your way of thinking, you should be supporting the developers that actually listen to their player base, instead of the ones that do whatever they want.

While it is not technically blind devotion to claim what they're doing is wrong, it's rather foolhardy to say that all developers have a right to such undue treatment towards the people that keep them in business, no matter what size they are.

You're saying we should let them know we won't pay for the game by walking away, but I doubt they pay attention to the people that just don't play the game, but rather pay for it and THEN walk away.

There's no reason to just say:

"Hmm... well, it seems like 2,480,000 people aren't playing our game... what are we doing wrong?" 

It would turn out to be more like:

"There's 20,000 people playing our game, and more are leaving, what are we doing wrong?" 

As I said, the only logical reason they would pay attention to such numbers would be to join, and then leave, because our cries wouldn't be heard otherwise.

So... $50 to make a statement.... no, thank you.

Mon Jun 29 2009 4:52AM Report
KenTsurugi writes:

In addition, I don't think they keep close track of all the NA players that play on the European servers. With the way their business works, would they really be comparing notes on how many players went over to the NA servers or simply quit altogether? I somehow doubt this, since they don't even seem to care about most of the state of their own game.

Also, I meant to put "While it is not technically blind devotion to the developer, since you are claiming what they're doing is wrong...".

Finally, I retract that whole statement about them having a "right" to do it. But, it should be noted that, to simply state that "this is what happens", sounds rather cynical, since there are several companies that do not follow these practices.

Why focus on what a company just does, using cynicism to wrap it all up, when you could just be highlighting the companies that take this the opposite direction, listening to their player base and doing whatever they can to fix any issues they might have?

To be honest, I'd rather read that sort of stuff than what you posted.

Mon Jun 29 2009 5:00AM Report
beauturkey writes:

Man, thanks for some of the novels..I mean comments, guys! hehe

 I keed! Good points, seriously. Join and then leave, leave and then join, doesn't matter to me, I don't own the game.

 I am going to try it out again though once this new Pve stuff goes in, 'cuz I don't mind paying a bit. Hell, that's less than a movie.

  Beau

 

 

Mon Jun 29 2009 7:55AM Report
wolf216 writes:

EU players might face this all the time, but it is news to US players. We went into this with the promise we would be taken care of, given the chance to change servers, no mention of any more money coming out of our pockets. If that fact would have been known at least we could have made an informed decision at the start, to play then or now.

You forget some of us are on a six month subscription fee with 90 + days left. I have no wish to buy a second account or pay for the same game twice.
 

Mon Jun 29 2009 4:56PM Report
tnvnu2 writes:

i do kinda have a question did u hope that anyone who moans about stuff they don't like would stop moaniong by reading this post now these comments are kinda predictable dfo will either succeed by itself coz i enjoy the game yes hacker spoil the fun but i left cs coz of losers who got outskilled accusing everyone better than them of cheating i will point out it was not the hackers themselves but the whiners that made me leave

i would not tend to moan at ppl whining about stuff coz it is pointless they will moan and the problem is a small few of them actually have a point but the vast majority don't and make me skip posts coz i think its just another pointless whiner when someone actually has a point to make which is actually worthwhile as it happens i tend to agree with a lot of what the op has said

 

basically my point if u wish to whinge try not to make it so everyone has to see ur pointless rant it is one of the few things i dislike about public forums u spend days sifting through bs before u get unbiased reviews  which is a shame and ppl end up getting pissed and writing posts like this in order to give ppl a place to whinge 

as some of the comments here could have been worthwhile and i could have read were most of them not a waste of time

 also before u scream fanboi i am not only talking about dfo but the general online community at large unless ofc i'm an all mmorpg fanboi

and finally i know theres no grammer here deal with it or move on i hope this mess of words has helped the ops point 

Mon Jun 29 2009 5:00PM Report
risenbones writes:

Heres the thing.  Whats happening is pretty much industry standard practice it's just this time NA gets the game after Euro.  Has nothing to do with weather the dev is a indie or not this is what all of them do and have been doing for years.

For those NA people who rushed in and paid to play on the Euro server congratulations you have just discovered the impatients tax.

Tue Jun 30 2009 2:37AM Report
freakky writes:

So you whine about people whining and expect people to listen? People have the right to express themselves just like your doing. Since you like to tell people what to do, I will tell you what you can do.

1. You can comment back on what was said.

2. Ignore what was said and move on.

I find it funny how everyone is hypocrite, even me.

Tue Jun 30 2009 5:44AM Report
FatGamer writes:

I should have not read this so early in the morning - off to puke.

Tue Jun 30 2009 8:34AM Report
MadnessRealm writes:

Freakky, I doubt that's what Beauturkey tried to say.

It's not that you can't whine as you are right, people have to right to express themselves BUT their lives don't stop the moment they leave DarkFall because "something horrible" happened. Basically, ok whine for a few sec and then move on and find something else to do. DarkFall is 1 of the many MMORPGs on the market so why keep whining about one after you've expressed your feelings already? Why not move on and find a new game or simply a new activity that you or others may find more enjoyable?

Life doesn't stop where DarkFall starts. Life won't get better either if DarkFall improves and  life won't get  worse if DarkFall ends up unable to deliver. Whine for a few sec and then move on.

Best exemple is those who keep whining about UO and the Trammel Expansion (in 2000 I believe)....that means 9 long years have passed and yet they keep whining about "ah if it wasn't for freaking Trammel" like their lives stopped the day Trammel was added. Move on.

Tue Jun 30 2009 1:37PM Report
t0nyd writes:

" Either pony up the petty cash to play this game you say you love or move on. Despite "evidence," I seriously doubt that the developer (s?) are/is a crook. "

The developer may or may not be a crook. The point is, with all products purchased, people should speak out if there is a problem. If you pay $ for a product and you do not get what your promised, by all means, speak up so others do not fall into the same trap.

" I walked away without saying anymore. The game isn't my cup of tea, but I will try it again after it gets fleshed out some more. I don't WANT it to close down. "

  This is a valid opinion. Personally, I would rather you speak out if the game is horrible or excellent, thus helping others make an intelligent decision when either purchasing or not purchasing a product.

  I do not understand the mentality of treating games as if they are special and that developers shouldnt be held to creating a quality product, like every other manufacturer out there. If someone sells faulty vehicles, by all means, complain. If someone sells poor quality RAM. So why should video games be treated different?

Tue Jun 30 2009 2:01PM Report
rageagainst writes:

You do need to treat indy devs special, otherwise there would be no indy devs. Indy devs can make games without being pulled back by publishers who that a dev needs to appease. If you want to make a game that a publisher doesn't feel would make money (any game that doesn't look like WoW), the you have to go indy.

And with small funds you just don't have the power to get as much accomplished for launch, but the content you do put in is completely free from any publisher's scrutiny. Which is why indy devs have the right to ask for as much money as big publishers, if not more (they usually ask for more, they just don't have the ability to stay competitive with the big guys right from day 1).

That being said, Aventurine is a failed indy company, and sets a bad example for what indy companies can achieve. They have VERY little communication with their fanbase, they glorify the features they have when the actual thing is very incomplete, and they apparantly NEVER HAD A DESIGN PERIOD when they just sat down and figured out what core features they need to launch with, what they can hold off until after launch, and, most importantly, how all the features work together. This is not something you should compare other indy companies to, AV is a disgrace...

Fri Jul 03 2009 5:40PM Report
Soundbyte writes:

AV are more honest and communicative than most developers, and this paying for NA release thing is the standard thing in the industry.

 

Every time I've read someone say "AV promised us XXX", and I've actually looked up the original quote, it's said "hope" or "we'll try". Methinks the problem is not AV, it's the dopey players.

Mon Jul 13 2009 7:39PM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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