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It's Always Personal

Agree or disagree if you will, but regardless of your choice, it's always personal!

Author: 56KModem

Victim of WAR

Posted by 56KModem Wednesday March 25 2009 at 8:43AM
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Dawn of Disappointment

The analysis of why Warhammer Online has failed me in more ways than any other game.

I know what you may be thinking; “Warhammer is a great game!”  “Sure it has bugs, but it is a great game!” “Go back to WoW!” “It’s like the best thing ever!” I have an idea that many others are thinking a little differently; “Warhammer sucks!” “It’s much worse than WoW!” “Warhammer is dying!” Look, we have all been there when an MMO fails on an epic scale, but I am not here to bash the game for what it is. I am going to be discussing my own personal opinions and feelings toward the company that made it, as well as, the actual intellectual property of Warhammer. Bear with me and feel free to bash me at the end as I really enjoy reading all sorts of comments. Agree or disagree, I have my mind set for good on this matter and it is about time that I catalogue it in writing (or typing rather).

Let me start off that I have lied in the paragraph above. It is Turbine that I loathe for making DDO what it is, but that is a tale for another time. For now, let me just state that I think that Mythic Entertainment is one of the worst game developing companies that I have ever came across. Of course I am speaking from my perspective when I state that all the employees of Mythic should have been fired when the company was bought over by EA. It is not fair what they have done to me or many others that share my opinion on the matter. Again, I am only speaking for myself, but I would have thought that the MMO disaster that was DAoC would not repeat. I was wrong. How I prayed that WAR would not be like that, and how badly I was let down, the world may never know. Suffice it to state that I bear a grudge for what Mythic did with WAR IP. This may make little sense this far so let me start by explaining my reaction toward the company.

Why are all MMOs about medieval fantasy? I can tell you why, Tabula Rasa is an example. Sci-fi games lack the story and depth and many cannot relate with the main characters. WoW and the overall genre of MMOs using medieval fantasy is time tested. Time tested to a point where experimentation is frowned upon. I think not! Why drag Warhammer universe into it. If it was left to any company but Mythic, the game might have been different. The game might have had great potential. Mythic tried to steal WoW’s customers. That is the reason they did that. What a terrible incentive to make a game. What a terrible game it turned out to be. So Mythic, like many others, decided to go with medieval fantasy. They decided to follow the formula except hopefully make a better game than WoW. They should have bailed on the idea when they realized that their plan was not going to happen and that they are going to get a small audience (less than half-million players). Mythic should have made a game for a small audience, maybe then it would grow.

Many people know of Dawn of War titles. Warhammer Dawn of War is a great and successful RTS. Story is fresh and the whole gothic/doomed glow of the world is completely believable. That is what I knew Warhammer to be since I started playing the RTS and since I started playing its board games. It was not to be. Half-assed RTS titles were released shortly before WAR’s release, supposedly trying to follow the same formula as WoW, down to the letter. The only difference is that those RTSs (Mark of Chaos) were so bad and poorly developed, that they completely flew under the radar. Mythic proceeded with their plan anyway, even though the tell-tale signs of a failure were there.

Warhammer should have been of the 40K universe. It is much more defined. It is much more believable. Finally, it is very original. But no, guess what Mythic did! They decided to make a shitty ass game and change much of the story of the 40K universe in the process! Fucking bastards! They were so focused on the profits that WoW was making, they decided to try and get a piece of the pie and create a fucking mockery of Warhammer. They changed the realism with shit. They changed the magic with even more shit. They dumbed down what was the original lore. They have mutilated the WAR IP. In trying to follow the same formula as many MMOs out there, fucking Mythic made DAoC of my favorite game. I speak with passion here, because I was actually hoping from the start that Warhammer MMO would be of 40K universe. I actually prayed. I even fucking petitioned. Then I discovered that Mythic was making it and I had a terrible feeling. My fears came to pass tenfold.

Sorry for the harsh words above. I tend to have such displays about things that I really care about. What really saddens me though is that it was allowed to happen. Relic, Games Workshop, and others have let that happen. What company is going to make another Warhammer MMO now even if the 40K was going to be accepted? The market is saturated with Mythic’s filth now. Single-handedly, the company had destroyed the IP and doomed it not to have any correct remakes as that would be too much for the market to handle. They are now chewing through their mistake. The formula had failed the company that is made of failure. The only question that I ask now is why they have decided to massacre my favorite IP. If it was another DAoC then I would not have minded one bit.

I am not sure, but I think that I am the only one here that plays Warhammer 40K Dark Heresy. How much I wish that the game would make it to the MMO market, I cannot explain. Who would create it now? Mythic ruined the IP and saturated the market with the wrong game universe. For what? For fucking profit. Did they succeed? NO! The signs were obvious, they should have catered to the small (not that small actually) demographic that played WAR 40K. The surrealness of 40K universe would have drawn in more users. It would have drawn me in. If it wasn’t for Mythic.

With the release of the Warhammer MMO, one quote from Dawn of War made me believe it entirely: “Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.”

Yeg 

Azmaria writes:

So...you don't like WAR because Mythic chose to use the Warhammer Fantasy Battle world instead of the Warhammer 40k world?  And now no-one will  try to continue the successful IP that is Warhammer 40k? 

If that's not what you're trying to say, then I apologize.

These are my thoughts on this matter:
A) I firmly believe that WAR is not preventing any other MMO company from creating a Warhammer 40k MMO.  Seeing as they fall into different literary genres (fantasy vs. sci-fi), the games will be so different in scale/story/models/everything that one shouldn't really influence the other.  

B) As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong!) EA/Mythic and THQ/Relic don't really have anything to do with each other.  And seeing as it was THQ/Relic that put out Dawn of War rather than EA/Mythic, could we have expected Mythic to make a game using Relic's games?  I don't think so.

C) As far as I've heard, there is indeed a Warhammer 40k MMO at least on the drawing board through a smaller studio associated with Relic.  Could we expect them to use a similar style to Relic's Dawn of War?  I do believe so.

D) I believe the cross-over that we'll see in these two MMOs (if the WH40k one goes to completion) is that they will both be PvP oriented, as is fitting for the WH (FB and 40k) universe.  Hopefully the WH40k one will be a bit darker, as that would fit my tastes.

E) It's been speculated that WHFB is a spin-off of WH40k's lore in that Sigmar was a former Primarch whose legion disappeared into the Eye of Chaos (the massive warp storm) and then set up shop on the planet they landed on.  

F) I haven't played Dark Heresy yet, but I'm in a game that will be starting soon!  Can't wait ^_^  Fate struck as I was rolling up my character and created an Imperial Psyker with the name of Magnus. -_-;;

 

Wed Mar 25 2009 9:53AM Report
56KModem writes:

 Azmaria, you have indeed gotten my point. I will have to applaud you for completely understanding it as well. Let me go through some of the things that you have mentioned:

A) Nothing is literally preventing the creation of WAR 40K, but you have to understand that it has a slim chance of actually happening. I will use WoW as an example. Imagine WoW came out today, then a month later, another company made WoW (another universe). I just don't see that happening.

B) The companies have nothing to do with each other true, but they draw their IP from the same place. DIfferent games yes, but the universe is the same. Why did Mythic decide all of a sudden to kill the IP? No emperor, magic, and elves? Personally, I would have been happy if Relic made the MMO of 40K from the start before Mythic would have gotten it ruined. Again my point returns, if Relic made it before Mythic, then Mythic would have not taken the idea. See it all comes together.

C) I sincerely hope that you are correct about it. The thought of making the game is half the battle. The actual game making is the other half.

D) That is what 40K is all about. Doomed humanity fighting for survival. Clinging to the God-Emperor that is actually a writhing corpse. I advise that you read Dark Heresy as I love the 40K universe as well with all its dark glory.

E) Thats one of the stupid swists that was added. There is no Sigmar. The primarchs were the creation of the God-Emperor and they have their own chapters of Space Marines. Some are dead and some are well known. Horus Heresy explains the creation of chaos and the effects of the Warp in detail. Long story on that one really, but the divotion in the game is misplaced for certain.

F) Love that game man. Dark Heresy is what I am hoping of an MMO. Dark, gloomy, strange morals, and of course the dark age of technology. Great game, my team switched to it from DND a couple of weeks ago and we love it. Just as any loyal to the God-Emperor, I have a guardsman, the closest I could get to an actual Space Marine.

Great to have you respond, Azmaria and see that you have at least understood my pain and what I was talking about.

Yeg

Wed Mar 25 2009 10:23AM Report
dcostello writes:

  To start off this post let me state that I think you have a fair opinion of Myythic given that they have disappointed you in the past, but your reason for disappointment seems irrelevant to your intended solution (to the problem).  You assert that you company should have made the game based on 40K WH instead of the fantasy style.  There is nothing wrong with such a statement, however you assume that it was the lore itself that caused the game to fail.  I would have to argue against you here because, given the fact that I played the game myself, WH failed simply due to its overall crappy performance.  Mythic created the most horrendous PvP style of "Tug of War," sprinkled in some illusions of PvE importance and topped it all of with the worst, and most narrow, class system ever invented.  The game was doomed to fail because it was simply a poorly constructed game in almost every category.  They simply tried to polish an absent fundamental idea.  They added features like the Tome thing and Public quests, which are nice add-ons but are not actual aspects that one can base a game around, in the hope that people would stare wide-eyed at the "Pretty colors."  Had Mythic decided to base it on the 40k version, I think it would have had the same disastrous effects, but instead of hope of redemption for the Warhammer series, there would only be pity.

Wed Mar 25 2009 10:33AM Report
56KModem writes:

 dcostello, I see your points there. I am not disagreeing with them at all. WAR is indeed bad in other ways, but I decided not to address them in my blog.

"Had Mythic decided to base it on the 40k version, I think it would have had the same disastrous effects, but instead of hope of redemption for the Warhammer series, there would only be pity." I think that is the best statement made so far. Thank you.

The above statement is exactly why I did not want Mythic to touch WAR IP. They have and made it not only a bad game, but single-handedly destroyed some potential that it might have had with other companies. The developers of better games would have considered it before, but now they may turn away and think that the IP is taken.

As for the story, well, that  is why I have originally started playing WAR 40K. I loved the story. When I saw that fantasy version of WAR will be released, I knew that the story was going to take a beating. It did. Completely Mythic's fault there, they had taken an IP upon themselves, that they knew nothing about.

Again, I acknowledge the problems that you have mentioned, dcostello, but those are minor in comparison to what I thought they did to the game. Ruin the story and its like a broken spine, cannot stand on its own feet.

Yeg

Wed Mar 25 2009 10:48AM Report
Adiaris writes:

 Your post has "nor head nor tail" as we say in Italy. But perhaps this will cool off some nerd rage?

 

http://www.vigilgames.com/games_40k.php

Wed Mar 25 2009 10:58AM Report
56KModem writes:

 I greatly appreciate the the link Adiaris. It has renewed my faith, but perhaps time will tell and at this point I am really not hoping for much. Vigil better deliver. Sad that Relic is not taking a shot at it though.

As for your comment Adiaris, I see that you have not understood me. Care to explain your Italian expression. To me it doesn't seems that bad to not have a head nor tail as the body of the text is what explains the issue.

If you are going to insult me, be more creative than that please. Put forth the effort, unlike Mythic with their WAR terror.

Yeg

Wed Mar 25 2009 11:40AM Report
xbellx777 writes:

ya i agree war was a big let down for me too. hopefully the 40k game will be amazing!!! i own all of the dawn of war games and i have some of the books so im a pretty big 40k nut lol

Wed Mar 25 2009 1:19PM Report
Mequellios writes:

Developers have little control over what is put in the game. They just do their job. If they are told to write code for a certain features with pre-determined functions, they do it. If they are told to make a 3d model with a certain style, they do it.

Now tell me why all those developers should have lost their job, which they have worked harder than you ever have, to get? I understand that it was an exaggeration, but you also need to understand that many companies have just a few people holding the leash. Those are the people to blame for having dollar signs blinding their vision, not the individual developers.

There's little they can do to change the course of the game. If they don't listen to their boss, they are fired. I find it a little reckless that people start pointing fingers for a "failed" game, when they have little knowledge of the industry.

Wed Mar 25 2009 2:26PM Report
Velexia writes:

A) Nothing is literally preventing the creation of WAR 40K, but you have to understand that it has a slim chance of actually happening. I will use WoW as an example. Imagine WoW came out today, then a month later, another company made WoW (another universe). I just don't see that happening.

 

Like say, World of Starcraft?  (It 'is' Blizzard's rip of Warmhammer 40k, after all).  Obviously, Blizzard would make WoS if anyone.  If Games Workshop had personally created WAR, one might fully expect that they would also create W40K.   However, they did not, and therefore, they can give the rights to it to anyone they choose.  Completely different scenario.

 

Additionally, I agree that Mythic made an absolutely terrible mistake, making  a WoW-clone out of WAR.  I could see the similarities from a mile away, and that is why I haven't touched the game.  I loathe World of Warcraft...  I certainly wouldn't want to play a clone of it.

Wed Mar 25 2009 2:51PM Report
56KModem writes:

 Mequellios, I would have to dispute your points there. Game Designers are absolutely in charge of what may go into the game. Game Designer presents his copy to the publisher which is no doubt money hungry. Game Designer states that it will make profit, and in most cases, based on the evidence, publisher may agree. How do I know anything about the game industry? Well I am going to college right now and am currently on my second year. Sure I am not entitled to much, but I still have opinions.

Maybe firing everyone is a bit overboard. Maybe just the designer will do. The artist and animator may need to get a boot as well.

Read my post again, I stated that the game had only failed for me. Many people see it as a very good game. It ruined the story for me. It ruined the feeling and replaced it with loathing. I hate Mythic not for the game that they created, but what game they created. They should have never touched Warhammer if they could not do it right.

Some petty insults from you are appreciated though. Considering you do not know me and what I went through to get my job, you can be pretty assertive. Even if they worked hard to get their jobs, they need to work harder to keep them.

Again, I would not have cared a single bit, if it was not WAR IP.

Yeg

Wed Mar 25 2009 3:03PM Report
56KModem writes:

 Velexia, I am not sure what your post means. Please explain. You quoted me, yet the text that followed was completely unrelated to what you quoted. 

I guess you would be right though (if I am understanding correctly): World of Starcraft is only for Blizzard. I am not really sure where you were going with it.

Anyway, I am not disputing that WAR is a clone. I do not like that myself, but what saddens me is that Mythic took the task and not only made a crappy game, but gave everyone a bad look at the WAR universe which should have been set for 40K.

WoW set the standard for medieval fantasy. Why are all the other games trying to beat that standard. Time to set standards for other settings. Mythic failed at that, and if no one else, they failed me.

Crazy poster Adiaris made a link to the development site for WAR 40K. I am relieved, but many a time have I heard of a project being cancelled. My hopes for the future are not that high up yet.

Yeg

Wed Mar 25 2009 3:11PM Report
dcostello writes:

  The point of the captitalistic system is essentially Spencer's "survival of the fittest."  So, the designers should be expected to always be working their hardest.  Why should I feel any pity for people who make thousands upon thousands, even millions, when people working 10 hours under arduous conditions only receive minimum wage?  Mequellios you are ridiculously ignorant and inexplicably retarded if you pity the developers who receive complaints for the crap they create.

Wed Mar 25 2009 3:15PM Report
mystic_ben writes:

while I agree with your statement that Mythic has ruined the Warhammer IP with their game- I do have a point of contention. You make it sound like Warhammer was cooked up by mythic after the Dawn of War games (I quite enjoyed them) came along. Correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

I'm all the more enraged as I've been playing WHFB for over 10 years, I know a lot of the rich history of the warhammer world (and also the implied link to the WH40k galaxy) and was thoroughly let down by what I found in WAR.

Wed Mar 25 2009 10:19PM Report
mystic_ben writes:

E) It's been speculated that WHFB is a spin-off of WH40k's lore in that Sigmar was a former Primarch whose legion disappeared into the Eye of Chaos (the massive warp storm) and then set up shop on the planet they landed on.

uh, the 'old ones' set up the warhammer world. Moved it closer to the sun, spawned the lizardmen to carry out their will and the other races in due course. Sigmar united the scattered tribes of man against the greenskin menace quite a while afterward...

Wed Mar 25 2009 10:24PM Report
nomraw writes:

I thought it was going another one of those typical posts "I hate war coz it is a WoW clone"...etc post...but you kinda brought in the 40K thing...never saw that cmin..LOL...

Before I put in my thoughts..I would like to say that I haven't played any other WAR games except fo

But I kinda do understand that...many players/gamers  are disappointed with WAR..I was a follower of the game for quite a while...played the open beta...was fun for a while...then got frustrating when targeting was a pain, dumb co ordinations, too much popularity for destro..etc..and the graphics weren't that great either....but I thought that Mythic would be dedicated to the original WAR lore and do something UNIQUE....but as you and many others stated....the more you played age of reckoning...the more you realize that it had wayyyy too many similarities to WoW or other MMOs....

It is bad enough that players overhype WoW (Not a bad game but doesn't deserve the Godly respect)...and makin a clone to get that population was probably a blunder...

Either ways...the game isn't exactly a failure from the FINANCIAL point of view....it is somehow surviving right now...and they claim that the population is slowly growing..very slowly...This could majorly be  due to the fact that the number of MMO gamers is growing..rather than the conceptual quality of the game.

Since the release of the game...until now...I do see a considerable amount of changes...no changes to the fundamental concept but...CONTENT and slight changes to combat responsiveness..etc

I would atleast pray that they would start getting out some decent WAR PvE Lore..either through PQs or Lore based RvRing..etc..

Agreed that they did a piss poor job with everything else (graphics, combat, mimicry of other games..etc) but... if they can do good job by patching things up..then maybe WAR would be decent enough...

And about 40K......I dunno about that but.....I think it should be made into a PROPER mmofps rather than RPG...but not exactly like a typical FPS....it should also have a good amount of RPG element to it...and the RTS part can be made into mini campaigns based on the 40K lore with really good twists....and I wish they use  reaaaallllyyyy awesome game engine ...not necessarily the most expensive ones like crytech 2...etc but they need to take some inspiration from the Guild Wars client...made by arena net... the client was excellent for that time...and it still looks awesome now...

Well...these are few of my thoughts...please feel free to respond...really need to ask the game community on what happened with the quality of present games. :(

 

Wed Apr 01 2009 5:57PM Report
nomraw writes:

some corrections...."I would like to say that I haven't played any other WAR games except for dawn of war 2"

 

Wed Apr 01 2009 6:00PM Report
rozenblade1 writes:

I enjoy WAR... I mean for some casual fun here and there... nothing hardcore... I play Dark Heresy, and I have to say, it is the greatest roleplaying game out there, I love it, and it would make a great MMO.  Though I enjoy WAR, I completely see your point.  The game could have been done so much better.  And, your 're right about the fact that a 40k mmo should have been released first, it could have offered something entirely new to the MMO community.

Tue May 05 2009 5:45PM Report

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