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Thoughs on aspects of MMOs nowadays

Trying to share what i think about different aspects of MMOs. Comunity aspects is what catch my interest over other things but not them alone. Have to apologise in advance. English is not my first language.I hope to make my writtes understandable.

Author: Trissa

Why do people keep trying to use WoW to judge everything?

Posted by Trissa Saturday November 8 2008 at 8:45PM
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The question arose in Aion forums on these boards and I’m taking the opportunity to use it to write some thoughts I got after just a month being active in mmorpg.com.

It’s easy to answer. Because is the only game they have played and got to know enough about it to use it as reference. They don’t have right now any other possibility.
Let me backup my statement with few numbers and history.
My source of data is of course www.mmogchart.com .Really the only one I know about, but I think its reliable at some extend and more than enough for what I want to say here.

In October 2004 before WoW launch the estimate number of subscriptions to MMOs worldwide was 6.6 millions. No more than 2.5 were players of the western countries.
I’m very generous here because I just am deducting 3.7 million subscriptions coming from LineageI and II almost all coming from Korea. Sure there are some numbers to deduct coming from Asian players in games like Final Fantasy XI, EQ or other less populated games at that time, but anyway there aren’t information about it and these numbers are not so important, lets keep the 2.5 millions as accurate enough.

In April 2008 (I’m sorry, there is no more recent data available) the total estimate worldwide subscriptions were around 16 (yes around 10 millions in WoW) the information available about Asian market is Lineage and Lineage II got 2.1 million and WoW Asian markets more than 5.5 then we get 8.4 millions in the western countries coming from WoW (4.5 millions), Dofus (0.5 millions. Surprise?) and 3.4 coming from all the other games including Asian people that I’m sure have their share on the grow).

Where I’m going it’s that there are a lot of people, at least 4.5 millions that just played WoW in their whole life. I just made the above wall of numbers to show that at least 4.5 millions are new gamers that just played WoW (the right number is probably way higher). They don’t know any other MMORPG than WoW and in consequence, they can only use WoW as a reference, not because they are stupid or so. There is no point into argue about if WoW is a good or bad reference, it’s the only one they can use.

And it is not just a question of game designs, graphics or mechanics it’s a question about the game community too.

Let me go a bit further, that is my real goal with this post, some of these 4.5 or more millions of people have started to look for new games to play, asking friends, veterans in game, looking in forums like this and so. They have been received by lots of these so called “veterans” “old school players” “True PvPrs” and so with words we all know and I don’t need to repeat here. Talking shit about the game they enjoyed for long time and their community, insulting them. Also these “vets” tend to show to all their supposed superiority and strong feelings on being the owners of the truth.
The rest you all know about, these mmorg.com boards are full of it. As some one said using other words in the general boards (Sorry I can’t remember the poster nor the words they used, I just keep the idea in my mind) these is the new MMORPG game. “The Epic battle in the boards”. It has no rules, well at least not about what is a right behaviour between persons.

I share how the newcomers feel about the “old community of MMORPGs”. I know that not all pre WoW players are acting like these people. I’m sure they are just a little bunch in comparison with the entire pre WoW player base. Unfortunately in general they are a lot more vocal and furthermore to destroy it’s easier than to build. For some people to destroy their own little villages seems to be easier than to help to build nice towns around them.
I know also that there are people with stupid behaviours in these newcomers but sorry I blame less them because lot of times is just reaction against the aggression.
As it happens in all wars, nowadays, they both are blaming each other about who starts the war.

I’m not going to write more about other considerations on these things that some on practical matters.

If I try to show to someone how good is the music I like and I know he/she don’t have ever heard or may be not in the appropriate way. Sure is the worse strategy starting with “your music is shit” “you know nothing about music” “you are a retard noob because you just listen to this bunch of money makers” “come here I have the true music” and as soon as they shows some negative reaction or doubt I follow with some like “we don’t need you. You blind, stupid moron” “go to listen your shit” Probably I can finish in my Ivory Tower crying together with my comrades (that act the same) about “how stupid people is” and “musicians nowadays are just a money farmers” and so on.

If more than 6 years ago when I was starting in AC2 my path in the MMOs I could have been received with “what a f**** moron” “go to play your Diablo shit you stupid carebear” “go to dupe at Battle.net” probably I wasn’t expending the thousands of hours I did expend playing MMOs and when the subject comes in any talk you can guess what I’m going to say about people playing online.
Fortunately to me the nice people in Dawnsong help me to start, teach me how to fight the easiest solo mob, how to play in group, what is a clan, how to enjoy the PvP. What a server in arms could do against the most terrible monster. I’m in debt with these guys and gals. They opened a door that leads to uncountable hours of fun instead of closing it.

 


 

Kordesh writes:

 You're going to need to fix that piercing gramatical error in the title before anyone even begins taking you seriously, and even then, your wall of text and the content within is likely not to garner much priase....

Sat Nov 08 2008 10:11PM Report
MyPreciousss writes:

WoW is such a crappy pos that I feel the need to mention it everytime I get the chance to put it down in comparison of good games.

Sat Nov 08 2008 10:29PM Report
Cochran1 writes:

Actually, Blizzard started the "numbers comparison"  because that's all that matters to development companies at this point. Even the pioneering developers had in mind that this could potentially be a good way to make money. Think about it when you have an idea to make a " widget " naturally the first thought is that it will be beneficial to people. Along with that first thought is the prospect that if it is successful it will make a lot of money and might even become a household name. It's only natural as a capitalist entity to be proud of a successful product and boast about record numbers. Music companies do it whenever an artists album goes gold or platinum, same with movie studios with box office gross.

Consumers will often back products that they like and compare them to other like products, I see it all the time in the automotive industry, soft drink companies, beer and alcohol companies. It's all part of the corporate marketing strategy to build consumer loyalty.

Sat Nov 08 2008 10:39PM Report
Goob writes:

Why DO people.

DO.

DO FIX, yes.

Sun Nov 09 2008 12:09AM Report
Ionium writes:

I don't know if English is your first language or you have just had bad schooling but I trying to read your post is irritating due to the lousy grammar. Please use a grammar check and repost this! I gave up reading this halfway through and really did want to see what your point was...

Otherwise

Why do people use WoW to compare other MMORGS?

Because 14yr kids aren't savvy enough to get their heads out of the box and look for something more fulfilling.

I happen to think the upcoming Stargate Worlds and Fallout (not its real name I know) will change a lot of the cliched and poor gameplay of most popular MMORPGS. I resent and dislike your comparisons to MMORPGS like LII because I wouldn't call them as such since the whole game play seems to resolve about gold buying and not gaming... Take a look at EQII and POTBS for the same problem. "Lets just buy power" is a poor way to implement an MMORPG gaming experience and for those muppets buying into it I think your doing the gaming industry innovation wise and quality wise a HUGE disfavour as companies will spew out the same money making crap products as they are currently doing at this particular moment in time.

 

Sun Nov 09 2008 12:16AM Report
micona writes:

Kordesh what is priase ????? new english word ???

Sun Nov 09 2008 12:17AM Report
Kordesh writes:

 That would be a new english typo,

Sun Nov 09 2008 1:23AM Report
Neosai writes:

Now, now, no need to attack people's grammar.  Online typing really don't have too many rules anyways.  You don't want to see how a Japanese gamer type online.  It is cannot even be called Japanese anymore sometimes.

I believe people compare everything to WoW is due popularity and its huge player base.  Whether they never played other MMO or if they do like playing WoW is fine.  None of it matters.  People are allowed to like any game they wish and form any opinion about it.

Due to the amount of people playing WoW, of course it is used as an standard to judge games.  However I cannot honestly say it is correct to do so.  When looking from a neutral standpoint, WoW is only slightly above average, and in no way set any standards for what a game should contain.  Furthermore, WoW is not even really the first MMO to have instance dungeons, raids, and questing for xp.  Those ideas were already in existence when WoW implement those features.

In the end, WoW is used as a standard due to the amount of people playing it.  However, if I hear WoW clone and trolling much more, I think I need to seek medical help from a MMORPG psychologist.  If there are any....

I don't hate WoW, I hate the people that WoW brainwashes, however if you are one of those who really like WoW as a game, then good for you.

Sun Nov 09 2008 1:35AM Report
Evasia writes:

Well im pre wow and im sometimes also bit harsh towards all those newcomers.But its also there own fault, sometimes i think there plague polute the mmo industrie with over and over whines about why new games are not like wow.

Lets take saga of ryzom when it relaunched few months back and they released a free trail many ex wow started to play it was terible how they behave and whine whine whine why you could not jump why they could not find npc's with quests and shouting in caps that ryzom sucks becouse its not like wow.

This now also happens on darkfall forums where ex wow asking why surten gameplay featers that are in wow not in darkfall, bah there sometimes so stupid:(

So when there are discussions i will always say if you want a kids game easy as hell and carebear wow======>that way:P

Everyone who have only played wow are good for themepark mmo's but bad in general for mmo market.

Sun Nov 09 2008 5:11AM Report
NotArkard writes:

The people who compare games to WoW are as plentiful as the people who say such people haven't ever played any other game. Unfortunately, I've compared WoW to other games since WoW is one of the most popular games out there. it's a good reference point. Mostly everyone on MMORPG.com or on other games have tried WoW at some point in time. That's it. It's not the only game I have ever played, or any of that bullshit most people here come up with.

There's just absolutely no point in comparing AoC, WAR, V:SOH, or any other "recent" game to... EVE Online because that's not the game they were trying to emulate. No point in comparing Ryzom to a mainstream game because Ryzom isn't popular. Unless you take the time to painfully explain every feature in Ryzom in comparison to a mainstream game in your writing, most people won't have a damn clue what you're talking about.

You'll just need to get used to it.

Sun Nov 09 2008 5:13AM Report
zymurgeist writes:

Read some Bartle. He explains it best. WoW is a common referent and people who hate people who play WoW are just assholes. It's a game not a heresy come to destroy the one true religion. Most posters on these forums are so wrapped up in their own precoonceptions they can't be bothered to recognize the value of another view .  Hate the game not the playah people.

Sun Nov 09 2008 6:38AM Report
ArcheusCross writes:

Zym, i hate wow. With a passion. I think it has destroyed this industry. There is no more innovation in the genre anymore due to everyone trying to make a wow clone. (see WAR and its scenarios)

We can't get a good sandbox game because of them, and any sandbox game that WAS good like precu SWG was changed to try and get a piece of wows pie. Damn greed...

Seriously.. most of wows numbers come from korea..

Sun Nov 09 2008 8:22AM Report
xS0u1zx writes:

most of you are just plain idiots........For one they compare everything to WoW because it has single handedly conqured every MMO made to date.   It's the most successful clearly, and what I don't understand is how people keep WoW bashing.

 

Honestly have you even played the damn game?  it's just like every other freakin MMO made, just with different characters, different story line.  Same gameplay, same motivations, and same grind.

 

These threads need to die, most people who post just sound like their jealous of WoW's success, and they probably hate the game because they ruined their lives playing it, or got killed so many times because they suck.  Stop being little baby's and grow the hell up.

Sun Nov 09 2008 12:44PM Report
tdexploit writes:

Does it really matter whether or not they use WoW as a point of reference or any other game?

Yes, it is the most popular but it is also the most unigue of its kind. Maybe my knowledge of games is insufficient but I have yet to find any game before WoW's release to resemble WoW or WoW to have used that certain game as a reference.

But to those that use WoW or any other as a reference, just stick with that game. It would save us alot of time if we didn't hear you (in general) whine about why this game or that game isn't like WoW or whatever game of your preference.

I mean if you're planning to try a new game, keep an open mind. It may not suit your taste but it might suit others. If it doesn't suit your preference, just move on to the next game you plan to try or go back to the game of your liking.

Sun Nov 09 2008 12:46PM Report
xS0u1zx writes:

and ArcheusCross you obiviously are freakin blind, there's a few sandbox games, but the best one ever released is Eve Online.  Go play it and find out, it's a great game. 

If you say oh I hate eve blah blah blah, then you sir are a confused little man who needs to press Alt+F4 and die a slow painful death.

 

You ask for something and you get it and say oh I hate it, isn't it what you wanted?  I know I'm just assuming but that's how some people sound and I don't see you any differently

Sun Nov 09 2008 12:46PM Report
Trissa writes:

Thanks to all for your comments. I dont have right now the time to comment on all your posts, may be tomorrow.

I was expecting to be not just flamed but incinerated. Anyway i see i'm to naive to not anticipated another forums war. Sorry was not my intention at all.

Sun Nov 09 2008 2:14PM Report
someforumguy writes:

Just read a thread about someone asking for a MMO where he could craft and build and avoid killing mobs if possible.

First reaction (which was removed by a mod for different reasons) was someone who suggested WoW.

There you have Star Wars Galaxies, Eve Online, Vanguard , but instead someone actually suggests WoW as crafting game. There you have your answer. Apparently there are players who only know WoW.

Sun Nov 09 2008 4:05PM Report
micona writes:

the new generation of mmo's players that all they know , wow even my little cousin saw the box in my room and freaked out that i once played it .

but now i need more than kidcraft and repeating the same thing everytime i log on . am back to my jrpg's for now

Sun Nov 09 2008 6:37PM Report
zymurgeist writes:

There are currently four sandbox games in production that I know of. So much for WoW preventing sandbox games.  Potbs was very innovative but unfortunately a failure. Look around not every game is like WoW.

Sun Nov 09 2008 6:59PM Report
Timacek writes:

*

Zym, i hate wow. With a passion. I think it has destroyed this industry. There is no more innovation in the genre anymore due to everyone trying to make a wow clone. (see WAR and its scenarios)

We can't get a good sandbox game because of them, and any sandbox game that WAS good like precu SWG was changed to try and get a piece of wows pie. Damn greed...

Seriously.. most of wows numbers come from korea..

i completely agree.

Sun Nov 09 2008 7:47PM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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