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TMORBG - Temper's Massively Overblown Ranting Blog [about] Gaming

After 25+ years of gaming, it's fair to say that some opinions written here may be older than some of its readers.

Author: VanadromArda

Guild Wars 2 Redefines Open World PVP

Posted by VanadromArda Saturday July 14 2012 at 5:56AM
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Guild Wars 2 Redefines Open World PVP
- TemperHoof (July 2012)
 
 
Does Guild Wars 2 have Open World PVP or does it not? There still confusion on this subject and it feels like almost every day there is someone debating it. The answer to the question is not exactly YES and not exactly NO: I intend to argue that it’s something of both. This is because ArenaNet is not applying their game to the classic, chaotic ideals of Open World PVP as the genre has known it for so many years. Instead of adhering to the tried-and-true, they are rewriting the rules and redefining what it means for a game to have Open World PVP.
 
“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn't 'true' open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.” — Mike Ferguson
 
Indeed, World versus World is ArenaNet’s version of Open World PVP. Unlike many games which allow for chaotic and boundless regions of non-level restricted and unbalanced player on player violence — ArenaNet has taken the elements of what they felt worked best from those games and made an effort to rebuild their own in a new way. Despite popular belief, WvW is not simply a static set of zones full of just structures to capture and upgrade. ArenaNet’s WvW is modeled off of classic Open World PVP mechanics, just with a bunch of new toys added to the mold.
 
Guild Wars 2 PVP 01
 
Introduced in more recent Beta Weekend Events, it has become noticeably clear that WvW does indeed have thriving Player versus Environment content. In June alone saw the introduction of several dynamic events, bosses, and skill point challenges which often populate the standard PvE zones throughout the game. This content will likely increase during Beta Weekend Event #3 and fans of WvW will find that the various zones have a method to the madness. Like all Open World PvP games, WvW has level progression — and the maps reflect it.
 
I’m no stranger to Open World PVP.  I know what it’s like and I know what it means to be part of that context. While perhaps it wasn’t the most hardcore of examples, my most recent experiences with Open World PVP have come from DC Universe Online. Players could join into a PVP server, which pretty much meant there were no limits to what could take place. Players of all level ranges could dive right out of the sky onto whatever zone they wanted and start beating up on people who just started a character. This gave the feeling of danger, and it was that constant threat of death that led a lot of people to work closely together and defend their own.
 
Ultimately, I feel that is what Open World PVP is about — the constant threat. Like an animal in the wild, you have to keep peeking over your shoulder for the signs of predators lurking in the bushes. The only difference is that DC Universe meant that many of those predators looked exactly like Ronald McDonald and were named something remotely close to Burgers McSpankYoAss. Does Guild Wars 2 compare to this? Well yes it does, because like DC Universe, a player has to start from the bottom and work their way up the food chain. With every level they gain, the more they can compete with other players until they are the one that everyone is afraid of.
 
Guild Wars 2 does not prevent a player from becoming the ultimate predator, it just changes the rules. Guild Wars 2 offers reason versus chaos and structure where there was no structure.  ArenaNet is striving to redefine what it means for an MMORPG to have Open World PVP.
 
Guild Wars 2 PVP 02
 
The popular definition of Open World PVP is: “Combat can occur between players in a non-instanced fashion anywhere in the game world where permitted by the server rule-set. Virtually all Open World PvP games place some limit on where and/or when this type of PvP can occur. This is typically done by zone, area, or character level. Regardless of the restriction, if this type of combat can occur, it is considered Open World PvP (Rift Wiki).”
 
Guild Wars 2 does indeed offer a non-instanced game world and four set zones for Open World PVP to take place in. They’ve made an effort to make two game worlds to suit this purpose. The basic world, Tyria, is the PvE segment of Guild Wars 2 that is in essence a giant safe-zone where people can enjoy a full game without limits and without the threat of other players. Here they can choose to relax, not having to constantly feel threatened and be able to calmly enjoy the game at their own pace. The Mists however is an alternate world within the Guild Wars 2 universe that could be the closest thing it has to an afterlife.
 
 
The Mists
 
"The Mists is the oldest thing in existence and the space between worlds and realms, connecting to all worlds and binding the multiverse together, including the past, present, and future, and is the source of all things and where creatures from across the worlds converge. The Mists is the proto-reality that exists between the worlds which in turn are the building blocks of reality. It is where the various afterlives and the homes of various gods and other powerful entities reside. The Mists resonate from the worlds around them, forming bits of their own reality - islands of existence that reflect the histories of their worlds." — Guild Wars Wiki
 
Mists
 
World vs World is considered a war within the Mists, a war between worlds, a war between separate realities which clash time and again until the ending of all things. It is within this world that ArenaNet has chosen to construct Open World PVP within Guild Wars 2. While you as a player are not bound to the rules and restrictions of most Open World PVP games, preventing you from instantly progressing to the highest and most difficult zone — Guild Wars 2 does not. And it is from here that confusion about the Open World PVP system stems.
 
“In the Mists, players all fight at the same level. Any character below level 80 will be adjusted so they are roughly equivalent in power to what they would be at level 80. This makes combat among characters of any level not only possible, but actually fun!" — Mike Ferguson
 
Since players are instantly balanced to level 80 upon entering WvW, they know no limits. They can easily miss the careful design of the zones within the mists, or simply the developers have not fully encouraged them to pay attention at all to that design — mainly because it’s just not been finished and won’t be finished until August 25th. World vs World now offers five very sizable maps, three of which service as homelands for each world. These are identical in nature, as they are supposed to be alternate parallel realities of the same world.
 
Settled in the north of every homeland is a protected Citadel. This is supposed to be the central hub for an entire server. Within the boundaries of that Citadel a person can find safety as the primary guards are indestructible and do instant-kill damage to anyone who approaches that doesn’t belong. Players of an enemy faction may find it extremely difficult to accidently come across these instant-kill guards, as the city is nestled high upon a mountain and is the highest point on every map. A sharp escarpment in the south separates it from the rest of the map, allowing only players of its faction to jump down in relative safety.
 
Gw2 Levels Example
 
Like any Open World PVP game, Guild Wars 2 provides a safe zone. Here players can shop, craft, gather supplies, and form groups. This is also the place where new players are supposed to begin their experience within World vs World. This was clear during BWE #1, when only the Citadel had a Tutorial NPC. They have expanded to all other zones since then, but that doesn’t change the fact that that Citadel is the official starting point.
 
But there is much more evidence proving that ArenaNet intends players to start with the Citadel at low-level, showing a keen sense of foresight when the game is post release and the world is scattered with several predatory players. The general area around the Citadel is nothing short of low-level content. The Citadel itself is home to a comfortable little town that can potentially be home to Renown Hearts in the future. But it’s the gathering nodes for Harvesting, Logging, and Mining that are all level 0 within this region — meaning that people at low level will earn the greatest amount of experience points here instead of jumping directly into the Eternal Battlegrounds; WvW’s central map and high level PVP content.
 
Heading either directly east or directly west of the Citadel will provide content that caps out roughly at about level 14. Mining Points offer a key indication of the regions difficulty by upgrading from Copper to Silver which can only be successfully harvested from level 10 players. While players can approach this point and mine from it freely at any level, they will not get bonus experience points for the daily, weekly, and monthly gathering achievements or acquire the precious ore to utilize for quick experience points in craft. The areas in the far-east and far-west are home to Skill Point challenges and basic 2-step Dynamic Event chains. Players in the surrounding region must kill a certain number of a creature to spawn a boss event that completes the chain.
 
Daily Achievements
 
With such large scale events in the north and a plethora of low level content, there is bound to be a large population of players at one point. This population will make it an uninteresting target for many predatory players due to the sheer number of activities within the region — inevitably offering greater protection for those new to the World vs World experience. Yet this does not hinder the brave or the bold from taking a strike party into the far north of each map. It is entirely possible for a small band of hardcore griefers to establish a small network of Ballista on one of the hills to camp this region if they so choose.
 
In the upper region of the East resides Mistwrought Dungeon, a small jump puzzle that is extremely rewarding for its minor challenge. But the path to Mistwrought is easily ventured for an enemy army, meaning that if players were to try risking this dungeon alone — they may find unhappy endings as enemies can easily single them out here without being noticed. Predatory players will likely be using Mistwrought as a popular camping spot, considering the tight quarters, the numerous ledges for clever hiding places, and the bonus rewards for raiding an enemy dungeon once a day.
 
During the Beta Weekend Events, Mistwrought’s enormous treasure chest would net a plethora of siege blueprints, decent gear that could be salvaged for runes, and Medals of Honor; the point rewards related to killing players and key targets in WvW. There is little doubt that people will see the value in these chests and realize that when in enemy territory the chance of getting even better blueprints and equipment increases exponentially. Without a doubt, the developers of Guild Wars 2 have placed this here as an incentive to create conflict and increase risk and constant threat.
 
Mistwrought
 
The central portion of the map reveals Iron Ore to be the primary mining node, meaning that players should be at the very least level 10 for this region to get the most benefit towards their experience. Also this area introduces Veteran Boss Dynamic Events which are no walk in the park for a new player, and these will scale depending on how ever many players are present trying to kill them too. Each of these bosses are easily soloed at around level 15. This portion also introduces players to potentially facing up against NPCs like the Guards and Lords if the enemy had claimed structures in this area. Taking down a Tower or Keep is no easy business, but the player is encouraged to see how it is done within this region first before progressing to the Eternal Battlegrounds.
 
Dead center is another Dynamic Event allowing players to lay claim to the Temple of Storms. While the weather effects which follow do provide some additional support to your team, the Dynamic Event is more or less a suitable training exercise in preparation for allied camps in the Eternal Battlegrounds. Within the Eternal Battlegrounds you can gain the affection of other races like the Ogres and the Hylek to capture Supply Depots for your server. Helping the Quaggan build their weather node in the homeland maps will prepare new players for that experience.
 
Progressing south means an ever increasing risk. In the southern portion of every homeland there are two Border Camps for each enemy server. Like the Citadel, these Border Camps are fully protected and offer players a safe haven for crafting and shopping. These are the only entry points for enemies of any homeland, meaning that the southern part of the map is going to be the riskiest and deadliest portions — also the most rewarding.
 
During the June Beta Weekend Event, ArenaNet added several new Veteran Boss Dynamic Events to this region specifically. The creatures on this portion of the map are especially dangerous and highly aggressive, making it dangerous for low level players to try and venture here without a partner or purpose. Furthermore, the gathering points in the region require level 25 tools — highly suggesting this is meant for players who are at the very least level 25 to get the greatest amount of experience.  Players who venture throughout the southern portions of the map should expect to run into a lot of enemy invaders from other servers. Even the Tutorial NPC suggests as much in the screenshot below.
 
Map Tutorial 01
 
By highlighting the southern Supply Camp, which is already captured by Red Server in this screenshot, it’s clear that ArenaNet expects this region of the map to be highly contested during release.  Players who choose to spend a lot of time in this region playing out Dynamic Events and visiting gathering points between attacking and defending strategic structures will gain the greatest amount of experience. This also means these regions will be highly watched by predatory players. Anyone who ventures down here should establish a fall-back point, setting up a Ballista to rush back to if there is ever danger.
 
Since siege remains on the map for 30 minutes between each time it is manned, you can potentially keep a Ballista at a fall-back point permanently while you and your party are on patrol. You can also use siege to quickly take out monsters too, meaning it may be a good idea to establish one within firing range of a powerful boss. Players who are skilled can feel safer if they know how to properly arm the region they choose to play in — keeping keenly aware that each boss is nearby the rear-exit of each enemy server basecamp. This prepares players for the next stage of WvW, the Eternal Battleground.  
 
 
The Eternal Battlegrounds
 
While anyone, at any time, can venture into the Eternal Battleground and gain experience — they may not gain it quite as quickly until they reach level 40. Unlike the homeland maps, the Eternal Battleground is the central map. No server has a Citadel here, instead there are three Border Camps and a short jog outside of each Border Camp players will find Platinum Ore gathering points; a level 40 material. Once again, the get the best experience, it is recommended to begin approaching Eternal Battlegrounds at roughly level 40. This doesn’t mean that no one beneath level 40 should venture into the Eternal Battlegrounds. On the contrary, there is always something to do as battle is likely happening somewhere.
 
Guild Wars 2 PVP 03
 
Yet people who feel they want to get the best experience out of WvW should be mindful of their surroundings and know where to go when things are quiet. As they progress through the Eternal Battlegrounds they will find creatures to be more durable and a lot tougher to take down. Even Dynamic Events become extremely challenging and either cannot be soloed or cannot be soloed with ease. At various points throughout the map they’ll come across Mithril Ore; a level 55+ mining point. But the most precious gathering points are in an unexpected area. During the June BWE the new area was added beneath the Eternal Battlegrounds. While it is connected to the Eternal Battlegrounds, in many ways it is an entirely new zone.
 
While it was largely unpopulated by any kind of PvE element, the Jump Dungeon beneath the Eternal Battlegrounds was entirely PVP driven and included a lot of player driven traps and features. But the deeper a player ventures into the jump puzzle, the more precious the gathering points become. At the final stage of the dungeon Orichalcum Ore is plentiful. This is a level 70+ material, and it’s buried in the depths of a likely to be camped dungeon complex. Predatory players may find a little thrill in here, and large groups may want to venture down to do treasure runs while at the same time pausing to partake upon the precious minerals.
 
As different as it may be, there is little doubt that Guild Wars 2 does have a method of leveling progression to its Open World PVP. There is structure and purpose, though that purpose is not entirely evident.  The one thing that it offers is the ability to harbor an Open World PVP population and give them a place they can call their own. At the same time, it can legitimize ganking and player harassment on an entirely new level. 
  
Orch Ore Image
 
Instead of players beating up on a faction within their server, perhaps inadvertently diminishing the overall population of their server leading to an eventual lack of activity — they are beating up on another server entirely. This means that if they demoralize and diminish the population of the opposing server, they will not feel the adverse effects and may even feel more rewarded in the long run. Instead of being known for your name, you are instead known only by the name of your server. To many Open World PVPers this is something of an insult, as they like to bask in their own fame from time to time.
 
But by giving credit to your server instead of yourself, you start to share that fame with others. While sharing may not be the nature of some players, it boosts the overall morale of the server and creates a friendlier gaming experience for everyone — not just one person. In Guild Wars 2 Open World PVP has a subtle effect on PvE. Players within PvE may never once step foot into WvW, but they will bask in the generous bonuses that WvW generates for them. At the same time, WvW players can potentially benefit from PvE players who may enjoy spending more time crafting and sharing material they find due to the WvW bonuses. All that matters is how all of that material is managed.
 
“We wanted to make WvW fun and easy to get into, so there’s no level grinding required—you can just hop into the battle using your normal PvE character, regardless of what level you are.” — Mike Ferguson
 
As Guild Wars 2 ventures closer to release, World versus World will likely see more and more PvE content steadily introduced. ArenaNet has promised and has so far delivered upon their wish to make WvW an independent gaming experience that will appeal to the Open World PVP fan. While one can argue that since it is not like games before it, then it is not Open World PVP. But in the gaming industry there is progression and change.
 
ArenaNet is offering their own answer to the Open World PVP spectrum, feeling confident they have worked out much of what turned off a lot of people to the experience in the first place. While the most gritty and overly devoted hardcore player may not be swayed, I have argued my point — Guild Wars 2 does indeed have Open World PVP, and it’s new.
 
Sure some of the elements may not be fresh and new, but the combination that ArenaNet has put together feels like it’s a completely new creature entirely. I look forward to seeing how it truly plays once the game launches in late August. I hope to see you there — lurking in the bushes like the elite predatory you claim to be.
 
 
An Official Retort —
 
   Due to the popularity of this entry, I decided to make a slight amendment to it as an addition to the debate happening within the comments. Do enjoy!  — TemperHoof
 
And the debate continues, which I expected entirely. This Blog is not the end all, be all of answers and fact. Everything here is prospective, and it pleases me to see such a thriving community taking interest in this subject — whether it is for or even against my topic. One thing I want to point out is the idea of the “Instance”.
 
“An instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area. Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique, addresses several problems encountered by players in the shared spaces of virtual worlds.” — Wikipedia
 
There are a lot of people claiming World vs World takes place within an Instance, therefore leading to the point that it is not Open World PVP. Perhaps I should ask the general public to understand a simple fact: ArenaNet is making three games: three MMORPGs. One of which is called The Mists. It is a game complete within itself, with PVE content, level progression, end game, objectives, cities, and towns. In addition, there are NOT several copies of The Mists which spawn as it gets full. Once it is full, it’s full — you will have to queue for entry just like any other MMORPG that has a full server.
 
Just because it exists within the same package as Tyria, ArenaNet’s purely PVE MMORPG, doesn’t mean that The Mists is instanced out of Tyria. When you are inside of Guild Wars 2, you can just access your main menu and choose to instantly move to World vs World at any time. You are switching from one game to another, despite the fact they exist within the same universe and are connected to the same network.
 
By understanding that The Mists is a game completely and 100% independent of Tyria, that means that the world is NOT instanced. It is designed to support a large population much bigger than simple Battlegrounds. Unlike DAoC, the Frontier was not an independent MMORPG that was an optional part of the game. The Mists is a fully optional MMORPG that will be populated with content familiar to Tyria, but it will support large amounts of player on player combat.
 
Level progression plays a large part of The Mists, and someone who is level 80 will surely dominate a level 1 with ease. Furthermore, you can gank and grief however you please. I mentioned several examples in my article where you can setup Ballista. Now understand Ballista, these are fast-shooting giant sniper bolt launchers. These can hit players from crazy distances and practically do one shot kills. If you have two or even three Ballista setup side by side, you are going to cause a lot of trouble for the lowbie players and will get your satisfactory feeling of ruining someone’s day.
 
Furthermore you can camp Mistwrought Dungeon and kill lowbies there too! What I’m saying is The Mists is a game within a game: it is not an instance. By claiming that it is an instance, you risk devaluing the very Open World PVP games you use to support your own arguments. No MMORPG is just a big seamless world; everything takes place within a zone of some sort. Each zone can support a set number of players, just like servers. Each server can only support a given population. If you argue that World vs World is just an instance and not an MMORPG, then you are saying that every single game is also just an instance — just a bigger instance.
 
So the The Mists isn’t a huge MMORPG, in respects to its size — which is just five zones — it is indeed fairly small. Yet that doesn’t change the fact that it is still a large world for five areas, and despite it not supporting a flourishing, massively, and expansive world — ask yourself this. Do you truly understand how small the Open World PVP crowd truly is? In your imagination the size may be vast and huge, because you expose yourself to that game crowd a great deal. But does it truly give you an idea just how many people truly enjoy that game style versus the rest of the MMORPG population?
 
ArenaNet has created an MMORPG that they felt was large enough, at launch, for the target audience. In many Open World PVP games, you will likely spend a long time between each encounter. Or vast sections of the game turn into uneventful, useless graveyards of unused, underplayed content because the Open World PVP crowds find little use for those regions. ArenaNet has chosen to streamline it, cut the fat, keep things more straight-forward to allow for more frequent and consistent action to please the diehard PVPer with the ability to quickly drop into the game, find battle, and get the hell on with their lives.
 
They are reducing the need for extended camping; they are also increasing the activity by squeezing a sizable population into a smaller space. This promotes a more intense and active atmosphere, making that small world feel more alive and thrilling. There will always be something happening everywhere in The Mists, while in many other Open World PVP MMORPGs — nothing was happening but a few sparse scrims. Larger battles would take place in more popular regions as the rest of the game was vastly untouched.
 
My argument takes the point of view the The Mists is not an instance, nor battle maps, but a fully fleshed out mini-MMORPG married with two other MMORPGs. Therefore it is an Open World PVP MMORPG.
 
 
If you enjoyed this article and would like to make suggestions on future article topics, please send me an email at TemperHoof ( @ ) G M A I L . C O M or send me a Private Message.
 
Don’t Forget to BUMP this Article!
Banquetto writes:

I think most people would define the "Open World" of "Open World PvP" as being a place where people will be seeking to do things other than PvP.

I can't really agree with the definition of GW2's WvWvW zones as "Open PvP" because everyone there is there explicitly and purposefully to engage in PvP. Nobody is there trying to quest or do any other type of PvE activity, are they?

Sat Jul 14 2012 6:04AM Report
Elecc95 writes:

There actually are events, skill points, jumping puzzles etc., just like in the PvE zones, so yeah, they are trying to do PvE stuff as well.

Sat Jul 14 2012 6:12AM Report
Ezhae writes:

@Banquetto Oh but there will be. There is several Skill Challenges there (and people want those skill points, especially since later on they become a currency to craft exotic skins for weapons/armour), there is plenty of PvE events, jump puzzles with normal rewards, you get drops from mobs... pretty it has everything that the PvE portion fo the game has (minus personal story) + PvP. 

In theory You could say that open world PvP in any other MMO that is limited to PvP servers is exactly that. People who choose to play on PvP server agree for PvP to happen. What GW2 gives You is the ability to freely hop in and out of the PvP ruleset whenever you like. 

Sat Jul 14 2012 6:17AM Report
Mahavishnu writes:

Banquetto is right, the casual pvp-experience while questing and gathering does not exist in GW2. So some may miss this. But keep in mind that this kind of pvp also includes grieving and ganking. In the end GW2 delivers so much more. Obviously they had a vision and a plan for pvp. Inevitably, they have to make decisions and stick to there plan.

I know, that there are players out there with good arguments for free pvp without any structured ideas behind it. But for those players there are already enough MMOs (eg TERA). After WAR failed to repeat the DAoC-experience, GW2 now looks like they got everything right.

Sat Jul 14 2012 6:36AM Report
sketocafe writes:

When you have to make extra parts of your world for pvp, don't claim you have 'open world' pvp. 

Sell the game on what it does well for chrissakes, there is absolutly no need to rely on selling points that are, at best, splitting hairs.

Sat Jul 14 2012 7:36AM Report
Elecc95 writes:

@sketocafe, ANet never said that WvW is open world PvP, it's just the article that tries to state that as a fact.

Sat Jul 14 2012 7:59AM Report
Zeus.CM writes:

Good read, thanks. WvW will provide lots of entertaining for sure, and quite a challenge.

Sat Jul 14 2012 8:03AM Report
Jimmydean writes: The premise of your article is similar to saying EQ redefined the open world dungeon by instancing it. Yea, now its not open world anymore... WoW has had the so called open world pvp you talk about here (instanced) for years. Gw2 fans so silly. Sat Jul 14 2012 8:18AM Report
FredomSekerZ writes:

Nope. Open world pvp IMO means a huge area for it. And when i say huge, i mean a large scale location with is so big that, in the case of territory or point control, it can take weeks to win. Normaly, it's also an area where quests, etc take place. (Not ganking)

GW2 clearly separates it's pve and pvp "worlds". Planetside 2 is also OWPVP in it's own way.

WVW is larger than other "big" scale pvp areas like Illum, Conquest, Fusang, etc, but it's only medium sized. To me, while it's good and i praise Anet for their hard work, it's only a streched out battleground to be a little bigger.

Sat Jul 14 2012 8:35AM Report
stragen001 writes:

As I have said many times before. GW2 WvW offers everything that Open World PvP fans CLAIM to want such as a huge persistent world, territory control, sieges, large scale battles etc, but the one thing that it doent do(by design) is allow people to grief lowbies when they are trying to quest. This is why the OWPvP fans are complaining - because they cant gank anymore. 

Sat Jul 14 2012 9:50AM Report
vladakov writes:

Tarrel Mill, oh nostalgia.

Open world pvp isn't all about the mechanics, one of the things that was so great about it is that you have to do your own organization.

Bash me down for the fact that i played WoW, but i don't think i've had any better pvp experience with open world pvp in that game. To use Tarren Mill as an example, it's just plain awesome to form tons of different raids groups and gather guilds together to fight over a town, not restricted by anything since it's in a completely open-world anyway. You can add objectives to it or not, but i think that that's what open-world pvp is about.

 

Sat Jul 14 2012 10:10AM Report
BadSpock writes:

If you can't gank/grief it isn't open world PvP?

Thank the Maker GW2 is not open world PvP then!

WvW > owPvP

Sat Jul 14 2012 10:15AM Report
Ehliya writes:

Interesting and I agree with the comments that GW2 seems to have taken the best parts of open world PVP and left out the worst. Of course the griefers are upset - they are lowlifes who live for the thrill of killing people who cannot fight back.  They hide behind all sorts of rationales but what they practice is not "PVP" anymore than a thirty-year old man beating a six-year old to death is a "street fight."   I hope they nerd-rage and log to go find another game to destroy - and good riddance.

Sat Jul 14 2012 10:35AM Report
diabis writes:

WvW is open world PvP as explained well in this articale you are doing more than fighting just players, including advancement to you character and server. Many games have now closed zones no PVP areas, level restriction.  Why do you wonder, because a small group of people that want nothing more that to gank and bother people can deplete their games. I love PvP and when done right in the level zones can add to a game. But when I start a game and I am level 5 and here comes a Level 80 that is bored as they often shout taking over area that they got to enjoy I just think well is this game so great that I want to play with people like this. GW2 is just saying it right up front, as did Aion that they would have non PvP zoness in all level ranges, many that newer games have now learned that it is time to restrict the children that are bored to maps for PvP and without.

Sat Jul 14 2012 11:19AM Report
Doomedfox writes:

 

I am looking forward to GW2s pvp and i am sure ill have a blast with it but it is not an open world pvp since i do have to enter a specific zone to pvp the zone i enter might be huge and allow me to do a lot of stuff but its still a zone separated from the rest of the game world.

I also would like to point out that the whole Mist thing is nothing new or massively innovative anyway.

It is very similar to Aions Abyss area a huge separated world full of quests and tons of pvp action.

The Mist has 3 factions which should make it superior to Abyss  but having your character buffed up to max lvl takes out a lot of the fun in pvp. Nothing beats the feeling of beating the other player few lvls higher than yourself through true skills ;) it also takes away the work to get to the top you just are at the top right from the begin which is as care-bear as it gets.I do understand why they did it and it even makes sense but i still don't like it i actually enjoy to work my way up.

Sat Jul 14 2012 11:54AM Report
Sojhin writes:

Open world pvp allows player(s) to guild(s) the ability to have political based conflicts. GW2's WvWvW is structured to the point of limiting true open world pvp and in my mind this makes the game have less meaningful pvp overall. 

Open world pvp is Shadowbane, EVE, Everquest-Rallos Zek, and Darkfall etc. 

 

Sat Jul 14 2012 11:55AM Report
wrekognize writes: Open world pvp = no instances. PVP anywhee. Not this crap. Sat Jul 14 2012 12:18PM Report
Horam writes:

I can't believe no one has mentioned how similar the PvP in GW2 is to DAoC. In fact it's almost copy for copy exactly like DAoC. Three sided pvp, Mist Zone = Frontiers, relics to capture for server side bonuses..

Instead I see people comparing it to WoW? Good grief.

If GW2 is anything remotely like DAoC then I'm sold. Best part is not having to worry about faction imbalance.

(looking at you, Midgard Left Axe skill.)

Sat Jul 14 2012 12:42PM Report
Poison_Adele writes:

People really do forget that WvW has PvE content, gathering/mining (including the best in the game), and everything you could find in a town.

Sat Jul 14 2012 1:32PM Report
nyxxis writes:

What it comes down tto is real simple....the only people complaining that it is not "real" open world pvp are the griefers and gankers. They are the same sort that complained when UO added Trammel or when wow put time limits on BG's. PvP should have a time and a place like. I know I personally like to be able to quest or gather mats or do my thing with out having to worry about some gank squad or high level griefer always trying to kill me along with everything else in the game world. Thing is in GW2 you could live in the WvW zone if you choose and never have to see the PvE world. As for me it will be awesome to do WvW and also run around the outside world to find all the nifty things the GW2 world has to offer.

Sat Jul 14 2012 2:14PM Report
FredomSekerZ writes:

@Nyssis: LOL. Have you considered that some players just don't find WVW all that great and large.

Like i said, WVW is like a BG streched to be bigger. There's a different between a large world (hence, world pvp) with tons of space and zones (hence, territory controll) and 2 medium sized areas (2 other copy pasted) that are disconnected from each other.

Sat Jul 14 2012 2:19PM Report
helthros writes:

I'm sorry, but your understanding of "Open World PvP" is so out of place that it's embarassing you managed to put together such a long blog based on it.

What you describe as Open World PvP is actually PvPvE. There's a HUGE difference between the PvP in Aion and the PvP in EVE Online.

 

WvW is an elaborate Alterac Valley battleground...

*shakes head*

Sat Jul 14 2012 2:32PM Report
coretex666 writes:

This is not Open World PvP.

Trying to redefine what OWPvP means in an MMO?By having one large persistent instance where PvP occurs? Amazing really

In WoW, PvP can happen anywhere in the world. Remember South Shore vs Tarren Mill in vanilla. WoW also has a zone called Tol Barad which considered a pvp zone. It is a persistent zone where both quests and pvp can happen.

It is like GW has only the Tol Barad just larger and with sieges and stuff.

It is not Open World PvP!

Poor article, in my opinion.

 

Sat Jul 14 2012 2:58PM Report
nephren25 writes:

@Doomedfox being higher lvl does matter in WvW you have more skills and better stat bonus's on your gear. they did it this way so noobies can join an have fun in wvw and be useful and also so ppl are not singling them out. cause i know if i seen a lvl 5 out there you bet your ass i would 1-2 shot them cause it's funny to me. 

@Horam yea man it's just like daoc thats why i love it just a updated version of it and they nailed it im a old daoc player and im happy somone has finally done it right. only thing i wish they would add is a pvp ranking system like daoc had and make ppl buy there camanders tag off realm points cause now you can be a commander just for having alot of gold not knowing anything about pvp at all. 

and no i dont think it's OWpvp and im glad it's not ppl get pissed if there not wanting to pvp and just wanna quest and have fun then somone ganks them over and over till they log just cause there bored and way higher lvl. this way if there in the mist they wanna fight ppl if they dont they stay out. if that dosent appeal to you find a diffrent game plain and simple. hope you can find one ya like. but i for one like this way much better.

Sat Jul 14 2012 3:10PM Report
sketocafe writes:

@Elecc95, who's talking about Anet? THIS guy is trying to sell it as open world pvp. You don't HAVE to be a Columbian to push coke, there are very many people down the line selling the product not affiliated with the growers. Not sure where i'm going with this. Blogger was selling it hard.

Sat Jul 14 2012 3:45PM Report
Melogore writes:

While I enjoy the WvW in GW2, One thing I really wish they would add is the ability to see opposing players names.  I like to know which people I am going against.  When I first entered the WvW.  I thought I was fighting NPC's for the first half hour, and the whole time it was other players.  Then I noticed the difference between npc's and players. 

Since we are all on even terms there I feel we should at least be able to see the name of who we are going against.  It would add more personality to pvp to know who is who.  Also, for me I like to know when someone of worth is comiing for me.(hehe so I can flee.) 

Anyhow, I love the way they have WvW set up.  I hate griefing but I love PvP.   Way back when I played Shadowbane for the short spell it was up was when I got turned off from ganking and griefing other players.  The guild that I was in for the short time the game was live, all we did was rob and gank people.  I should say all they did was rob and grief.  I remeber being on vent and those guys just loved griefing people.  I couldn't understand it, I aways felt that all they were doing was ruining an already small comunity.  Sure enough, the game failed and I feel it was totally due to the amount and level people could go to greif you.

WvW pvp in GW2 is a god send for me and I cannot wait till the game launches

Sat Jul 14 2012 4:18PM Report
Silvermink writes:

GW2's level reducing system would make ganking a difficult proposition and would cause open world fans to complain also. When you can enter an area as an 80 and decimate everyone, and get killed because 2 people stoood up to you, there goes your griefing event. I am actually liking this implementation and will explore it once the game goes live. Too much to try in the 2.5 day betas to learn pvp. I still haven't chosen my race/class for launch.

Sat Jul 14 2012 4:22PM Report
latinkuro writes:

I've been saying for years that what players know as open world pvp is archaic, but everytime I did so a bunch of players would try to shut me up, it is good to see Arenanet taking on the archaic design decisions of old and smashing them to pieces.

I say W v W is the purist most desirable kind of open world pvp I've ever seen in any mmo, why ? simple, you pvp when you feel like it no gankers while you quest in pve anymore and thanks to the bolstering system in W v W even if you do get jumped sometime it is exciting because you stand a chance even if you are not a pure level 80 player skill is taken in to account.

Any players here that say GW2 doesn't have open world pvp or that they don't really see it that way, or that you feel restricted because you cannot do it in open world pve I consider you a to be of the cowardly ganker types that like to jump people they know have absolutely no chance of winning against them, what's the challenge do you really believe this to be a show of skill ?

 

GW2 is doing things differently thank god for that.........finally a developer that has the balls to stand up to the few (gankers and shitty players) and give the many (true pvpers and skillful players) what they trully want.

 

Enough said.

Sat Jul 14 2012 5:55PM Report
RebelScum99 writes:

Yes, GW2 is redefining open world PvP by not having open world PvP.

 

 

Sat Jul 14 2012 6:21PM Report
Sovren1 writes: Semantics. Does it really matter if it has a label. Play or don't play. Either you enjoy what they offer or you don't. Being practical is my downfall I guess. Me being the breed of pvper who is there for the competition of it. "Omg, I don't have to worry about someone lurking in the shadows while I pve /wrist." People actually think this way. Get a grip. Sat Jul 14 2012 7:13PM Report
Palebane writes: I've always thought the word "open" signifies player-made factions, whereas "world PvP" is just PvP outside of an instance. So they have World PvP, but not Open World PvP. Sat Jul 14 2012 7:26PM Report
latinkuro writes:

Sovren1 writes:

Semantics. Does it really matter if it has a label. Play or don't play. Either you enjoy what they offer or you don't.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Sat Jul 14 2012 8:36PM Report
nephren25 writes:

+1 for joo haha

Sat Jul 14 2012 9:58PM Report
Havekk writes: It's not open world PVC and shouldn't be described as such. I'm not saying it won't be fun, or hat folks may like it better, but it isn't open world pvp Sun Jul 15 2012 1:38AM Report
Zezda writes:

So let me get this straight for all those people who are getting bent over the fact that GW2 has a different take on Open World PvP...

You're all saying a collection of the following

1) Because it is not in the same area as the PvE content it is not Open World

2) Because it is not huge it is not Open World

3) Because it isn't as much of a sandbox it is not Open World

 

That's pretty much the 3 main complaints so let's have a look at them.

With 1 that's easy.. there is PvE content in the WvW areas, lots of it. I know what you're gonna say; Tto go there you consent to PvP so that makes it not open world? Wrong, that's why MMO's either are notorious for ganking and PvP (Darkfall, Mortal, Eve etc) and people know that before they buy into it or the game has seperate PvE and PvP realms. Everyone who opens themselves up to being targetting by someone else consents to PvP regardless of the game and mechanics that allow that.

 

2)Who says it isn't huge? Huge by what standard? People seem to think WoW has Open World PvP even though there is literally nothing to do other than to try grief people trying to do PvE content, doesn't that make your arguement kinda moot?

 

3) Some people seem to think that other Themepark MMO's have Open World PvP /shrug

 

You guys won't stop shouting with your fingers stuck in your ears long enough to see the facts for what they are. You just think it isn't Open World PvP because it doesn't conform to the expectations you have had set by previous games. You guys can't even get your story straight as to what constitutes 'Open World PvP' so why should your arguement have any merit at all if you can't even settle on what Open World PvP actually is.

How about you guys list what you think constitutes a game having Open World PvP and we can see if GW2 has that in the WvW stuff?

Sun Jul 15 2012 2:55AM Report
UsulDaNeriak writes:

Open World has many dimensions you could dispute about. I marked my favourite type in bold:

 

persistence: full persistent, long reset times, immediate reset
who fights: WvW, FvF, GvG
where to fight: 1 zone, many zones but huge safe PVE zones, entire world (except some safe cities)
player-loot:  Full-Loot, Partial-Loot, No-Loot
reason to fight about: ressources, world buffs, titles & glory
acess to pvp: high level only, players buffed to max, no restriction
territory control: mostly unruled player driven, pre-made territories, no territories
player buildt structures: fully destructable, partially destructable, no player structctures
 
Now you coukd argue if some of these criteria would disqualify for Open World, e.g. it has to be fully persistent, if not its just a battleground.
 
But what if Arenanet adds more in future expansions?
What if they expand the WvW zone to 10 times the current space and introduce player build structures (e.g. cities) there and unruled territory control for guilds. Would you still call it a battleground?
 
The problem is, there is no hard border between Battleground and Open World. Perhaps only peristency is one. But even this is disputable.
 
 
Sun Jul 15 2012 4:05AM Report
wasim470 writes:

oh poor campers now they have to fight someone their own level....

how sad, now they will have to hide or get more skilled in the game.

Sun Jul 15 2012 6:15AM Report
General-Zod writes: Looks good but iv been fooled before ... Ill will need to see this with my own eyes (through my char of course) Sun Jul 15 2012 4:22PM Report
Jimmydean writes: There are two types of pvp. Open world, or instanced. All of GW2s pvp occurs within an instance. Its not a difficult concept. Sun Jul 15 2012 4:36PM Report
Gorelik writes:

There isn't open world PvP in GW2 because there aren't PvP servers.

 

Sun Jul 15 2012 6:46PM Report
VanadromArda writes:
An Official Retort —
 
   Due to the popularity of this entry, I decided to make a slight amendment to it as an addition to the debate happening within the comments. Do enjoy!  — TemperHoof
 
And the debate continues, which I expected entirely. This Blog is not the end all, be all of answers and fact. Everything here is prospective, and it pleases me to see such a thriving community taking interest in this subject — whether it is for or even against my topic. One thing I want to point out is the idea of the “Instance”.
 
“An instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area. Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique, addresses several problems encountered by players in the shared spaces of virtual worlds.” — Wikipedia
 
There are a lot of people claiming World vs World takes place within an Instance, therefore leading to the point that it is not Open World PVP. Perhaps I should ask the general public to understand a simple fact: ArenaNet is making three games: three MMORPGs. One of which is called The Mists. It is a game complete within itself, with PVE content, level progression, end game, objectives, cities, and towns. In addition, there are NOT several copies of The Mists which spawn as it gets full. Once it is full, it’s full — you will have to queue for entry just like any other MMORPG that has a full server.
 
Just because it exists within the same package as Tyria, ArenaNet’s purely PVE MMORPG, doesn’t mean that The Mists is instanced out of Tyria. When you are inside of Guild Wars 2, you can just access your main menu and choose to instantly move to World vs World at any time. You are switching from one game to another, despite the fact they exist within the same universe and are connected to the same network.
 
By understanding that The Mists is a game completely and 100% independent of Tyria, that means that the world is NOT instanced. It is designed to support a large population much bigger than simple Battlegrounds. Unlike DAoC, the Frontier was not an independent MMORPG that was an optional part of the game. The Mists is a fully optional MMORPG that will be populated with content familiar to Tyria, but it will support large amounts of player on player combat.
 
Level progression plays a large part of The Mists, and someone who is level 80 will surely dominate a level 1 with ease. Furthermore, you can gank and grief however you please. I mentioned several examples in my article where you can setup Ballista. Now understand Ballista, these are fast-shooting giant sniper bolt launchers. These can hit players from crazy distances and practically do one shot kills. If you have two or even three Ballista setup side by side, you are going to cause a lot of trouble for the lowbie players and will get your satisfactory feeling of ruining someone’s day.
 
Furthermore you can camp Mistwrought Dungeon and kill lowbies there too! What I’m saying is The Mists is a game within a game: it is not an instance. By claiming that it is an instance, you risk devaluing the very Open World PVP games you use to support your own arguments. No MMORPG is just a big seamless world; everything takes place within a zone of some sort. Each zone can support a set number of players, just like servers. Each server can only support a given population. If you argue that World vs World is just an instance and not an MMORPG, then you are saying that every single game is also just an instance — just a bigger instance.
 
So the The Mists isn’t a huge MMORPG, in respects to its size — which is just five zones — it is indeed fairly small. Yet that doesn’t change the fact that it is still a large world for five areas, and despite it not supporting a flourishing, massively, and expansive world — ask yourself this. Do you truly understand how small the Open World PVP crowd truly is? In your imagination the size may be vast and huge, because you expose yourself to that game crowd a great deal. But does it truly give you an idea just how many people truly enjoy that game style versus the rest of the MMORPG population?
 
ArenaNet has created an MMORPG that they felt was large enough, at launch, for the target audience. In many Open World PVP games, you will likely spend a long time between each encounter. Or vast sections of the game turn into uneventful, useless graveyards of unused, underplayed content because the Open World PVP crowds find little use for those regions. ArenaNet has chosen to streamline it, cut the fat, keep things more straight-forward to allow for more frequent and consistent action to please the diehard PVPer with the ability to quickly drop into the game, find battle, and get the hell on with their lives.
 
They are reducing the need for extended camping; they are also increasing the activity by squeezing a sizable population into a smaller space. This promotes a more intense and active atmosphere, making that small world feel more alive and thrilling. There will always be something happening everywhere in The Mists, while in many other Open World PVP MMORPGs — nothing was happening but a few sparse scrims. Larger battles would take place in more popular regions as the rest of the game was vastly untouched.
 
My argument takes the point of view the The Mists is not an instance, nor battle maps, but a fully fleshed out mini-MMORPG married with two other MMORPGs. Therefore it is an Open World PVP MMORPG.
Sun Jul 15 2012 7:02PM Report
Von_Dauss writes:

@Jimmydean

 

Actually, every game's PVE or PVP occurs inside an instance, may you call it "open world" or not, it's still an instance (or many instances seamlessly connected).

 

There's a PVE-only world in GW2, and a PVE-PVP one (WvW).

They are both persistent in the way that their state is continuously saved, saved for the half-weekly realm change in the WvW.

It's not all-world PvP neither some sort of "instanced battleground". It's some sort of open-world PvP game inside a bigger game that has more aspects to it.

 

Calling GW2 an open-world PvP game is confusing and probably misplaced, but that part of the game surely deserves the distinction for itself.

Sun Jul 15 2012 7:09PM Report
Jimmydean writes: Lol its amazing who they will let write articles these days. Im not even going to reply to that last one. Separating worlds is what instancing is all about, and thats what gw2 is doing. They arent making separate games. Sun Jul 15 2012 10:21PM Report
Jimmydean writes: The mists isnt any more of its own game than Alterac Valley was. Those battles could take days. WvWvW gets reset just like any other battleground after time. Sun Jul 15 2012 10:30PM Report
Kykyryz-a writes:

Good Article indeed :)  I dont really understand ppl who argue about "Open world PVP" on not.  Isn't  PvP you ppl want?   Or you just want  80lvl vs 5lvl   and what why you complain?  WvW  got plenty of PvP  dont want Zergy go alone with small group.  if you just some1 who has no skill and only want to gank low low lvl ppl  This game not for you sadly.

in PvP  Fear factor must go both ways not Just  "i have lots of time will lvl up fast and farm stupid low lvls cos im soo big and scary". and only Fight rare 1on1 with same high lvl or simply run away and continue later

Mon Jul 16 2012 1:15AM Report
ZeGerman writes:

People are misreading this article.  He did not say that GW2 is open world pvp as we know it, he said it is redefining it.  Think AION without rifts.  You still have the abyss as a seperate place you go to fight but if you want to level free of harass you can.  No more seperate pvp and pve server.  This isnt meant to be a comprimise its meant to be an all out improvement wether you agree or disagree thats up to you but stop comparing it to old games cause its not meant to be like them.

Mon Jul 16 2012 8:16AM Report
Tatercake writes:

there is nothing new to this why are you all syaing how new and great this is man its the same  stuff we been playing  just  with a few more options and a facelift bla

im tired of the same old  stuff need something better inovative and fresh

Mon Jul 16 2012 6:32PM Report
Muerte_X writes:

I love the logic here... GW2 is kind of open world pvp because is is redifining open world pvp... I can call a penguin a lobster, but it is still a penguin. PvP in GW2 is only in a PvP instance, albiet a large one, hence it is not open world PvP. Period. Use any rhetoric you want but it does not change the fact that the term is already clearly defined.

That said, it looks to be a fun system that both PvEers and PvPers will enjoy. But, not open world PvP.

Tue Jul 17 2012 5:55PM Report
Krosslite writes:

per the WoWwiki ----

"Dungeons, keeps, and other confined areas can have sub-areas called '''instances''' (aka '''instance dungeons'''). These instances are special areas in the World of Warcraft where your group or raid party is able to interact with a dungeon privately; that is, without interference from other party|parties or raids. It is also a respite from the global PvP environment on a PvP server. The term ''instance'' has been often conflated and interchanged with the term dungeon.
                             

Instance dungeons tend to feature the most difficult and rewarding content, both in terms of enemies and items, but also in terms of level design. Most mobs inside the instance are Elite creature|elite, with the exception of some mobs, and perform well above their level. Instances feature multiple bosses, all with special abilities and immunities. Getting through an instance normally requires a well-trained and well-balanced group of players who are of an appropriate level for the challenge."

per this definintion since you can not have sole control of said instance it is not an instance. Even if that "sole" is a raid party. If you apply this definition to this article the author is correct. "The Mists" is NOT an instance, but an open PvP enviroment.

Tue Jul 17 2012 8:05PM Report
Muerte_X writes:

Ah, the key phrase there is "per this definition". Let me restate without using the word 'instance'. The bottom line is, it is an area removed from the main PvE part of the game, that you have to deliberatly sign in to, knowing full well you are going to a PvP zone. This seperation makes it not wopen world.

Wed Jul 18 2012 10:56AM Report
VanadromArda writes:

Muerte_X, you state: "The bottom line is, it is an area removed from the main PvE part of the game, that you have to deliberatly sign in to, knowing full well you are going to a PvP zone. This seperation makes it not wopen world."

Considering WvW is it's own PvE zone, with dynamic events, challanges, puzzles, etc. You are suggesting that by logging into it, knowing there is PvP in a PvE zone --- it's not Open World PVP? That's like saying, "Because I know I'm logging into EVE Online, which has PVP available in the zone I'm logging in to, then EVE Online has no Open World PVP."

Remember, WvW isn't just a static PVP zone. It's a different portion of the game with complete level progression throughout its zones. It has lots of PvE content. It's just parked right in the middle of a DAoC-Style RvR map. It's like Planetside, just smaller and with PvE content.

Why are people not understanding that WvW isn't a static battleground of some sort. It imports PvE content from the PvE game and places it in a huge open world PVP world. Suddenly that disqualifies it from Open World PVP? I'm sorry, but when we talk about WvW that's a different MMORPG from the purely PvE Tyria. Just ignore the purely PvE Tyria for crying out loud, as that's not even on topic.

Wed Jul 18 2012 11:08AM Report
Whyhate writes: Look, im a big fan of GW2, in fact i already pre order and i have my BWE key. But this isn't really about opinions... it's about facts. You could say that in your opinion, the word SALAD means meat, but don't get angry when nobody understands what are you talking about. For more than 15 years, the term OPEN WORLD PVP has been used for a lot of games, and everyone pretty much agrees with that it means. Until now.... a group of very vocal GW2 fans, who have spent waaayyy to much time on this forum where if a game is not a sandbox or doesn't have open world PVP is shit, seem to think otherwise. Gw2 doesn't have open world PVP... that's a fact. Around 95% of the GW2 overall map is PVE only. MMORPGs with open world PVP are games where you level up with the possibility of PVP almost everywhere, some hate it, others love the excitment and dynamism it brings. In GW2, most of the people are going to lvl up in PVE only areas, and only a small amount will level up 100% on the mists. Which brings me to my second point, it doesn't really matter if you can level up on the mists, players can level up on SWTOR battlegrounds or TSW Fusang, that doesn't make it open world PVP. The PVE content in the mists is secondary at best, from what i've seen in the BWEs, people who go to the mists go to PVP, the fact that GW2 has a place where people go "when they want to PVP" makes GW2 a game without open world PVP. If someone who has doubts about buying GW2, and asks if it has open world PVP, and you tell him that "yes, it has", you are lying to him, because everyone ptretty much knows what OPEN WORLD PVP means, 1 big zone with a bit of PVE content isn't open world PVP, sorry. This are facts, just like how GW2 isn't a sandbox or a SCI-FI MMO, all facts. Thu Jul 19 2012 11:26AM Report
VanadromArda writes: Yes sir, "This are facts" indeed. By the way, you may want to get your "Facts" straight. WvW is 5 huge zones, not 1. This are facts!!! Thu Jul 19 2012 6:22PM Report
Rohn writes:

ANet didn't redefine oPvP, they eliminated it, from GW2 at least.

Make no mistake, WvW is NOT open world PvP.  It is an instanced zone, segregated from the open world to keep PvP out of it.

Too many GW fans attempting to redefine words so that they benefit the game.  GW2 does not have open world PvP, period.

Sat Jul 21 2012 2:52PM Report
Sovren1 writes: Ok, for all of you who love labels, Tyria doesn't have Open World PvP. The Mist however is it's own realm mimicking a thriving world on it's own. Guild Wars has some decent lore concerning the Mist and why this realm exist. The realm is large enough that you never have to leave if you don't want. Who knows how much more of the mist we will be introduced to in the future. Maybe down the road there may even be dungeons and the sort. I completely aggree with Temperhoof when he claimed that the Mist is kinda like being an MMO within an MMO. With that said, does it matter? Everyone holding court and debating dumb slang terminology. Sat Jul 21 2012 6:38PM Report
Prenho writes: This shit doesn't have world pvp, this article is pointless. Sun Aug 19 2012 11:44PM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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