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Teala's Wickedly Cool MMORPG.com Blog For The Masses

Just my thoughts on MMO's, roleplaying, game companies, and the people that play these games.

Author: Teala

The Tortanic's Maiden Voyage

Posted by Teala Wednesday January 18 2012 at 1:39PM
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This is not going to be a long winded blog entry, I just wanted what I am about to say to be on record.  I cannot take credit for the term Tortanic either, a frequent user of the MMORPG.com forums used it in one of their post to a thread and I thought it was very appropriate considering what I am about to say. 

With that, read on.

Whitesta...erm...I mean Bioware is proving that even with an IP known by millions of fans, no MMO is  impervious to the iceberg named "first impressions".  I've used this very term when I have discussed other releases of past MMO's and this game is no different.   So I am calling it here and now.

SWTOR will be one of the most disastrous MMO's released in the last 10 years and quite possibly the biggest(it's estimated that Bioware and EA spent anywhere between 80 million, and quite possibly 500+ million to make SWTOR) one any of us have ever seen and here is why.

First impressions are everything. 

Don't care what the so called professional reviewers have said about the game up until now.   Most people have come to realize that their(the professional reviewers) reviews were littered with potentially damaging opinions of the game - only to still give the game high marks.   I am not one to wear a tin-foil hat and really do not care if people will say I am wearing one now, but rumors are abound that many websites may have been coerced into giving SWTOR a good review.  Has something to do with Mass Effect 3(part of a game swag bag) and being able to get it before its release to review it - or something like that.  ::shrugs::  Take that for what it is worth.

Anyway, many professional reviews gave SWTOR a bloated score when it clearly didn't deserve it, and any gamer with half a brain realized this.  The game was released pre-maturely, it was not polished, and it was not a complete package as far as MMO's go(I will explain this complete package- read on).

Any MMO that launches with that many bugs, exploits, missing basic features(guild banks, customizable UI, target of target, etc, etc, etc), and almost no end game what to speak of, and its poorly implemented character creation system, poorly implemented game mechanics, bloated skill system, plus the faction imbalances, does not deserve a score that is reserved for games that truly are great.  

Despite the hype of this game, it hasn't exactly been shattering any recent sales records.  Bioware hasn't exactly been upfront and totally honest with its player base regarding the high-res textures snafu(or the exploits that plague the game), nor have they been gaining any browny points for their less than average customer support.   The game engine they chose to use is not up to the job clearly.  The heavy sharding is killing the MMO asepct, and it is coming across as a single-player game.  Also, their official forums seem like something a 2-bit amateur website might maintain.  

And speaking of forums, the official forums are littered with post of disappointed and frustrated fans.  

I didn't need to be a MMO genius during beta to see how shallow, how lifeless, and how off the mark this game was to know it would not do very well once your average MMO player got to play the game.  I knew it from the moment I played through the linear starter zone of Tython with my first character.   Call it instinct, but I knew I was beta testing a game that would be a flash in the pan.  I wish I hadn't felt it.  I really was hoping we'd get a good Star Wars based MMO and at least something as good as WoW.  I mean it is Bioware.  It is Star Wars.   You'd think that would mean we'd get a great game.   Sadly it is mediocre at best and if Bioware plans to save this grand MMO ship the indignity of being the biggest game to go bust the fastest of any game to date - they'd better start saying things and doing things players want to see and hear.   First impressions are everything and I think Bioware has blown it at this point.

If Bioware choses and continues to ignore the signs that iceburgs are dead ahead and doesn't do what is necessary to avoid that iceburg over the next couple of weeks...welcome to this genres biggest disaster...the Tortanic. 

 

UPDATE!  JAN 18th, 2012  TORTANIC HITS ICEBURG!   ICEBURG 1.1 RIPS HUGE GASH IN HULL.  NO WORDS YET FROM BIOWARE ON WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO.  FLOODING ON DECKS REPORTED. 

UPDATE!  JAN 19th, 2012 TORTANIC IN ORDER TO CONTROL PASSENGERS HAS REMOVED LIFEBOATS.  PASSENGERS ARE IN A FRENZY LOOKING FOR THEM.  IT APPEARS THE CANCEL BUTTON FOR SOME PLAYERS IS MISSING!

UPDATE!   JAN 19th, 2012 EA STOCKS TAKE A NOSE DIVE(drops 5% and still dropping) AFTER WORD OF THIS DISASTER HITS THE MARKET.  INVESTORS PANIC! 

UPDATE!  JAN 19th, 2012 BIOWARE RELEASES A VIDEO TO STAVE OFF CONCERNS OF PLAYERS AND TO LET THE PLAYERS KNOW THAT BIOWARE CARES.  ENTICING THEM TO STAY CALM WITH A VIDEO.  WATCH IT HERE >>>> SWTOR FUTURE PLANS VIDEO

UPDATE! JAN 20th, 2012 TORTANIC PASSENGERS FLEE SINKING SHIP.   GRAPHIC IMAGES SHOW THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS USING THE LIFE RAFTS.  

Above Image curtesy of SWTOR Arena.com

The above graph is curtesy xFire.com

UPDATE!  JAN 21, 2012 EA STOCKS CLIMB BACK 2% AFTER SHIPPING EXPERTS TELL INVESTORS THAT THE SHIP IS FINE.   EA STOCKS SEEM TO HAVE BOUNCED BACK AFTER OTHER INDUSTRY ANALYST RELIEVE FEARS OF INVESTORS.

UPDATE! JAN 28th, A NUMBER OF NEW HOLES HAVE BEEN FOUND IN THE HULL.   SEEMS A NUMBER OF NEW EXPLOITS HAVE COME TO LIGHT. 

UPDATE!  FEB 1st, 2012, EA STOCK REBOUNDS - UP 5% ON NEWS OF 2 MILLION PASSENGERS BOUGHT TICKETS TO SALE ON TORTANIC.  1.7 MILLION STILL ONBOARD!  NEWS IS SKETCHY.  WILL UPDATE WHEN WE HAVE MORE NEWS!

UPDATE! FEB 3rd, 2012, TORTANIC CONTINUES TO SINK AS PASSENGERS FLEE.

NOTE: In all the years I have used xfire to track a games health, never have I seen an MMO lose so many players this fast.   Not even Warhammer dropped this fast within its first month.  

UPDATE!  Well another month has passed for SWTOR and yet again we see another huge drop off in numbers.   In just two months this game went from having 11,800 players, with 85k hours played, to just under 5k players and 15k hours played.  As stated before, in all my years of playing and following games on xfire, never have I seen a brand new triple AAA title fall so fast.   If it keeps going at this rate of fall it'll be lucky to retain 25% of it's player base by the 6th month mark.

This is my opinion.   Bioware can still prove me wrong, but at this point in the games release I think it is too late.

theAsna writes:

I don't udnerstand most of the criticism concerning the game.


A) I hardly ran into bugs while doing the quests and flashpoints (maybe I was rather lucky).

B) Outdated game engine. I don't think that that is really a game breaker. Honestly, I rather feel this is just an artificial and rather subjective issue.

C) The game was released only 1 month ago and people already complain about a lack of "endgame". What have this people been doing all the time?


The social panel and grouping tool really needs some more love, true. Until that gets fixed it shouldn't be that hard to flag oneself as looking for a group and join appropriate chat channels.

Despite the good voice acting and class related quests/stories it still is an MMO that adheres to the tried and tested MMO mechanics. The MMO quest system still doesn't give me the shivers. Combat, well, I'm used to games that offer better and more action oriented combat. And the classes/talent system reminds me too much of WoW. This doesn't mean the game is bad, but rather that it doesn't suit my needs and expectations. But it's enjoyable and playable.

Wed Jan 18 2012 2:47PM Report
Berikai writes:

I agree Teala and feel TOR is a single player game with co-op.Playing on a standard server I haven't seen more then 40 people on all the planet's I visited on either side in a week.The first week had 250 plus just on Korriban.

To me alot of people imo have realized that there are many games that are superior to TOR and have already left and it's sad to see.

The thing I'm hating right now is that SWG is gone and I'd rather be playing that.Such wasted potential with TOR.Anyway I cancelled TOR about 10 days ago and playing EQ2 and WOW.

 

Wed Jan 18 2012 5:38PM Report
omome writes:

TOR is a great game, too bad you don't like it.

Wed Jan 18 2012 10:30PM Report
Bunks writes:

I knew after beta this wasn't going to be a smash hit after a big initial sales push, but was expecting it to cruise along at a nice clip with a decent subscription base of 700-900K.

But alas, now it's becoming hard to ignore the alarms, apparently the lack of experience with MMO's was just too much for Bioware to handle. They really aren't up to the task of avoiding the oncoming collision you speak of.

Thu Jan 19 2012 12:04AM Report
red_cruiser writes:

This game is just like every other MMORPG on the market. Whether you are a big enough fan of Star Wars or BioWare to overlook the obvious is entirely up to you.  Some people out there just need to play an MMO and this is the brand new kid on the block.  If that describes you, go for it. Pick the game up.  You'll probably like it, at least long enough to get through the story- which will, I warn you, feel shallow and uninteresting compared to a single player game.

Some of us have higher expectations of what a 2012 MMORPG should be.  Maybe we've been disillusioned by the hype surrounding Guild Wars 2 or The Secret World.  It doesn't take long to realize that this game did not try to achieve much beyond being a "good enough" alternative to WoW, whether it hits you at the character customizer or slightly later at your first "Kill 10 Flesh Raiders" quest.

I don't really see this game as being exceptional in any way.  There have been a lot of rumors about how much this game cost to make, and if the upper numbers are correct, then TORtanic is an apt name indeed.

Thu Jan 19 2012 12:18AM Report
Paragus1 writes:

You know I'm with you on this.   I'll be sitting next to you up on the cliffs watching this bloated mess sink.  They doubled down financially on a model that has countless examples of being a failure and somehow expected that their IP would blind people from realizing that the game is mediocre.

Add this with the Bioware double-speak - "No LFG tool because we want to foster community, but ...erm...there won't be any server forums...."

wat?

Thu Jan 19 2012 8:53AM Report
BadSpock writes:

I currently have no issues with TOR.. but my highest toon is 33.

Not really on purpose, but now I am thankful I haven't hit level cap yet and can still enjoy the game and hope (pray) they clean up the mess at 50 before I get there.

I won't deny that 1-49 is great but 50 is full of holes and big problems right now.

Thu Jan 19 2012 10:46AM Report
ammonite writes:
Absolutely love the headline.  I’m actually hoping it stays afloat. Imagine all those grubby third class passengers washing up at Lions Arch.
Thu Jan 19 2012 12:44PM Report
Nihilist writes:

I am at 50 with pretty good gear running end game instances but I agree with your points, especially about 1.1.

I did not play in beta, had low expectations and haven't played a themepark for longer than a few days for several years so I have been able to bear the mediocraty of this game.

1.1 Was a disaster since I am on the hugely underpopulated republic side. We were literally put months behind in terms of gear progression in under 10 hours and the farm fest continues.

This is easily the worst patch I have ever seen in 10 years of mmo gaming. Massively rewarding a population imbalance is just so incredibly stupid.

If I didn't have a guild that could do instances I would have insta-cancelled, but I highly doubt I will be in past the 2nd month.

You are right about first impressions. I don't even care if they fix everything in 3 months, they gave an overpopulated faction basically free rewards and did nothing to fix it.

I've played all of the recent BW games, but now I am glad I never paid a cent for any of them except this one.

 

Thu Jan 19 2012 3:17PM Report
Veldara writes:

I'm having more fun going back and playing Star Trek Online than I ever did with this game.

Thu Jan 19 2012 4:53PM Report
Thorqemada writes:

Well, the hate you feel toward the game drips from every letter in your blogposting.

Not that i think that SWTOR is the MMO to end MMOs but its probably ten times better as you feel, Teala.

No offense meant here :)

I have games i hate too!

 

Yet why is everyone so surprised?

We did know it would be a Themepark mmo.

We did know it would be 2 Factions PvP.

We do know never has a 2 Faction PvP game achieved balance and that even most popular IP doest not change that (i.e. Warhammer).

We did know that Mythic is a shadow of its former genius or maybe it was simply a Lucky Punch with Daoc, but they failed hard late for sure.

We know Biowares strengths, Biowares weaknesses - weaknesses that probalby extrapolate in a MMO environment.

Many players got the chance to play it in a Beta-weekend, i did.

So it was clear to me as it was stated that we get a Singleplayer-RPG-Campaign integrated into a traditional MMO environment of Themeparkstyle.

I can not see why there is such a noise yet?

It bears the Flaws of the very concept in it and bears also the positives.

I have decided that there is stuff in the game that makes it worth to buy and that i exepct 3 to 6 months playtime depending how they inject content into the game.

I never expected a good pvp-game bcs the 2 faction mechanic does not allow it and i did not expect even a great underlying idea regarding to the pvp bcs nobody there has ever made a good PvP-game lately or ever.

I expect the player that they use every competitive edge even if its a borderline exploit or true exploit bcs its the human nature that there be as much people doing that as you can only imagine.

So why the hell is all the rage?

Its only what was to expect!

Thu Jan 19 2012 8:25PM Report
Thorqemada writes:

PS: Which not means i had expected low sales - imho SWTOR can and will sell somewhere between 2 and 3 millions copys quite easy.

Thu Jan 19 2012 8:29PM Report
Cripnoah writes:

IT'S TOO BIG TO SINK!!

 

I'm not a fan of star wars; after the IP nothing in this MMO garnered my interest and I had my suspicions of the overall quality for a while. Beta showed how lackluster this game really turned out to be IMO.

 

Good read as always Teala.

Fri Jan 20 2012 1:58AM Report
nzrocket writes:

So far I am pretty darn well enjoying this game. Perhaps my expectations were not as high as some people's - I don't know.

It's Bioware - I know and love their previous products. Time will tell, but I do have some faith left in me.

Fri Jan 20 2012 2:42AM Report
Rommie10-284 writes:

I'm going to put it on record that you indeed Told Me So.  May I be under a WKRP Turkey Drop if I ignore warnings and my instincts about MMO releases from now on.

I, too, have found that playing Star Trek Online's FTP after I stopped playing TOR is quite fun indeed.  It still has a lot of the failings that doomed it, and I'm still not going to pay another dime to them, but there's a lot that does work well enough.  And I've found myself noticing little things that TOR was missing, in the interface, or options, or just the "feel" of the game.  I pray to the FSM that Guild Wars 2 gives me the same sense of fun.

The thing that I'm kicking myself the most about isn't the game of TOR itself.  I could, and can, live with most of the design shortcuts and a themepark.  But Bioware's management of the Beta was a series of huge red warning flags that they might SUCK at MMO Game Management.  I should have known better after Warhammer Online, when they fell apart at the end of their Beta and stayed that way for their Live game management.

Moral of the story: If a game company is fumbling the ball during their Beta process, they won't Magically Hand-Wave away those problems after release.  And I will not ever again ignore that going forward - future games damn well better be aw-shucks AWESOME to look past a bunch of hacks running the thing.

Or I could have enough disposable income to not give two spits about things and just buy anything that looks interesting that comes out.  Alas, I'm lacking the Uncle Scrooge Money Bin to swim in, so I can't really pull that off yet.

PS This makes me want to dig up the AC2 sinking boat for old times sake.

Fri Jan 20 2012 10:57AM Report
zephermarkus writes:

Another blog about how bad u think swtor is and your theory that the reviewers were coaxed come on seriously?Give it a rest already move on Teala, really your wrong the game is fine it's not going anywhere just like wow isn't going anywhere. I don't play either one but the ip's for each game will continue to keep them both alive. If people were going to leave they would have done so already yeah alot are mad about what happened so they took a week off they will be back.

Fri Jan 20 2012 9:09PM Report
Cavod writes:

"(drops 5% and still dropping)"

It's not still dropping, it's going back up.


You are also misrepresenting the graphs you posted.


The top graph represent server load.  Server load only shows frequency of play and not subscription loss.


The bottom chart shows xfire users and the notates the 18th.  Need I remind this blog of the server downtime on the 17th and 18th?  Ignoring the fact that Xfire is a faulty way to judge a game's success or subscription base, the downtime more than accounts for the drop.



I really hope the moderators wake up and realize that you're taking your opinion of SWTOR over board(opes, is that a pun?) and ask you to dial it back for everyone's sake.


Despite my join date, I've been browsing these forums for over 5 years.  I've only recently started to recognize your name because of how relentless you are about re-expressing your opinion of SWTOR by any means.


I hope we may all find peace one day.

Sat Jan 21 2012 12:07AM Report
Teala writes:

Cavod, these are my opinions.  Sorry you do not likewhat I have to say.   I have a suggestion though.  Start your own blog.  There you go.

Sat Jan 21 2012 12:18AM Report
smh_alot writes: Ah, lol, a blog. Funny read, didn't agree with a number of points, but hey, still amusing and entertaining. We'll see what's right or not after a while (500 million dollar budget? Lol... ). Graphs are incorrect though, at least for the point you're trying to make. Then again, that's only if the right data is what you were after. Sensationalism ftw ^^ Sat Jan 21 2012 12:49AM Report
Teala writes:

Those budget numbers come from other sources from around the net, I didn't make them up.  They range from 80 million to 500 million.

As for the graphs.  I'll continue to use them.  Some people don't.    ::shrugs::  I haven't been wrong about how these games have done in NA market that often..in fact I would say my batting average is about 900 right now.  What's yours?   :)

Sat Jan 21 2012 1:07AM Report
Cavod writes:

Teala, you missed my point.  I have nothing against your opinions.  You might even be surprised to learn that we share some.

 

I have everything against misrepresentation of these graphs and using them to falsely 'prove' your opinion despite constant corrections by numerous people.

 

I also take issue with you using 'troll' tactics, which are against this website's CoC, like using the term 'tortanic'.

Sat Jan 21 2012 11:36AM Report
Teala writes:

Cavod, nobody has proved anything that has commented.  These graphs show a decline in time played.   My guess is that it is caused by people leaving the game.   You say it is becuase people are playing less(like that is ever going to happen with an MMO).  I stand by my opinion.   I say there has been a signifiacant drop in people playing.

As for using the name Tortanic.  I think it is appropriate.  The game is suppose to be the best, newest, game on the market.  Just like Titanic of old.    Sorry you disagree.

As stated before.   If you do not likewhat I have to say, maybe you should start your own blog and talk about MMO's, games and SWTOR if you like.  MMORPG.com set the service up for anyone to use.  Get your side of the story out if you think mine is incorrect or as you like to say, "to further my agenda".  LOL!

If my being critical of these game companies and wanting them to make better games is an agenda - you're right- I do have an agenda - to get these people to make better games!  :)

Sat Jan 21 2012 2:02PM Report
Cavod writes:

"nobody has proved anything that has commented."

"You say it is becuase people are playing less(like that is ever going to happen with an MMO)."

""to further my agenda".  LOL!"

>implying "TORtanic" isn't a troll meme


You've definately made up your mind and won't have it any other way no matter what.  Freedom is bliss and grand.  As for me, I choose to wait for substantial facts before making up my mind.


I know better than to continue this discussion; there is no more for me to present than what has already been.

 

Since this is your blog I'll politely be on my way, good day to you.

Sat Jan 21 2012 4:42PM Report
Leethe writes:

If you wanted to count people who are leaving, surely you need to compare the number of x-fire USERS playing ToR over the same period?

Sat Jan 21 2012 9:30PM Report
smh_alot writes: Empty words, everyone can say that they're always right, if you believe a quote as 500 million dollars or those charts of which the creators themselves have stated that it doesn't say anything about player population, then such a claim is unbelievable at best, and a lie or purposeful (self) deception and distortion of the truth at worst. To me, it's a form of sensationalism if people advocate highly exaggerated and flawed information, to further their agenda against a game/company they dislike. Try objectivity and stick close to sensible facts, and you can still make a claim. Then again, with such a title I admit it's obvious that that never really was your goal, objectivity and a reasonable look at things. Sat Jan 21 2012 9:51PM Report
smh_alot writes: As for your claim for them to make better games, nope, you want them to make the games YOU enjoy, ignoring the fact that the games you bash with flawed and false information are games that in the eyes of players with different tastes than yours might be just what they were looking for. Sat Jan 21 2012 9:54PM Report
Laughing-man writes:

If you put a fraction of the effort you did mug slinging on this video game into something actually productive I'm sorta scared as to what you may have accomplished...

 

Sun Jan 22 2012 4:39AM Report
Alleneira writes:

It is rather normal that the playerbase of an MMO drops after a certain time/some months after the release.

Some ppl dont enjoy the game, others dont have the time and so on... but these often isnt an indicator that the game is bad.

But the problem with TOR is, that very important MMO parts are lacking and that nearly everyone says that you cant do much at lvl 50, except creating a new char and doing the story line for that one.

So the question is, is TOR still a good game, when most of the MMO parts are missing and even endgame content is missing? ... Or in other words, who would go into a themepark with rollercoasters which have a max high which you exceede?

 

To sum it up, the game fails as MMO, but is a decent single player game.

Sadly Bioware had to press their single player game expierence into an MMO world which makes the story and the consequences rather bland.

 

The stock of EA shows also very good how much the game failed since the stocks dropped quite alot... of course it went up again abit, but you have to consider that the stock was pre TOR much better as it is now.

 

I think the game will keep it self up, alone due to the name STAR WARS, if EA or Lucas Arts doesnt decide to pull the plug of the game, but I doubt that the population will be high. There is a too big need to change alot of things and the costs for it would excede any possible earning.

The engine is too weak... (would you buy an car with an 10 years old engine, knowing that you wont be able to drive that long with it till something has to be repaired?)

The world feels to narrow...

The combat feels sluggish...

....

The whole design of the game was flawed due to the lack of MMO-expierence of Bioware and without a good design/planing, you can only try to patchwork things up and end with some strange stuff, or build it from scratch...

 

... all in all it shows at least that you should buy stocks of an MMO, when it gets announced and sell them 1-2 weeks after it is released... well maybe GW2 will proof this theorie wrong, but till now Aion, Rift, Warhammer... and very likely TOR will share nearly the same fate.

Sun Jan 22 2012 5:29AM Report
//\\//\\oo writes:

Teala, fishing for attention as always. Anybody who has played MMO's that long knew EXACTLY what was coming down the pike as soon as we learned about the precise mechanics etc.

It's hard to beat Rift at cloning, but I think with all of the F2P alternatives, games like these will actually have to start trying.

Subscription fees need to go to development. Guildwars 2 is my last hope for the genre.

Mon Jan 23 2012 9:19AM Report
Konfess writes:

I use auto-run to move. The instant I try to steer, my camera jumps to a random orientation.  I often find my self looking down and turned 100 degree away from my intended direction.  This has happened in AoC, Rift, and now SWTOR.  There is a work around in keyboard turning, but this is not my preferred play style.  This bug does not show up in most other games like SWG, WoW, CoH, CO, FE, or STO.  I suspect it is due to a glitch in the mouse routines, possibly the direction variables being mishandled in their initialization.  I realize that this is not a bug in the game, but a flaw with the engine.  But it should have been dealt with back in 2008-2009 and not 2012.  I agree with and support the opinions expressed in this blog post.

Mon Jan 23 2012 5:16PM Report
CityHam writes:

it has been an honor gentlemen, -I have never sailed with braver men, who in a different age and time, aww screw it..

Mon Jan 23 2012 11:59PM Report
t0nyd writes:

The one major are where I disagree is that I do not believe that ToR is a single player game. If ToR was compared to a non mmo rpg ToR would be woefully gimped in almost every single aspect of its gameplay. How can you possibly compare ToR to Skyrim?

The problem with todays MMORPG's and most reviewers is that they compare MMORPG's to other MMORPG's and this genre is notoriously treated with kids gloves. Oh its an mmo its ok that it lacks story, has a horrible grind, doesnt innovate. This mentality is utter nonsense. Treat ToR like a role playing game which it does claim to be and all of a sudden you realize how lacking the MMORPG genre has become...

Wed Jan 25 2012 5:36PM Report
Liquidcurse writes:

TOR is a well done game with a solid premise and a good ip behind it. The patches that came later did have a negative impact. Ah well, if they didn't learn from other mmos it will be BioWare's downfall. Like World of Warcraft subs drop and rise all the time, but its important to recognize with the amount of people who sub to WoW its like a social effect that draws people back in. SWTOR was just relased. And back then people said WoW would fail.

In SWTOR I I'm in a solid guild that does stuff together all the time.  At my leisure I can choose to go to illum or warzones with my guildies. It wasn't hard to find groups or to interact socially, some interface options could be implemented to enhance this area like an lfg system other than a tag, color choices for text. (I don't think ingame voice is neccessary.) Yeah I'd like to see legacy put in to give players further purpose in rolling new toons. How about expansion of class storylines? If you figure its been one and half months since the game was released  there should be expansion in this area. I'm sure the sub-money would be put to good use developing this. Community is still surely there, that's an important thing.

When this game is Stabilized in Europe and Asia I'm sure Bioware will gain substantial profit, enough to continue supporting SWTOR globally.

As for the criticisms that go around, and I don't say this to brand people that do this for they have their own legitimate concerns, for as much complaining done by people, each one should examine what they're saying and the point they're trying to make. Regardless, things happen for a reason, and people feel ameliorated when predictions of failure come to fruition.

Tue Feb 07 2012 1:28AM Report
Ashanor writes:

I haven't played in about 3 weeks personally. Most of my guild ended up quitting around the same time as me and for the same reasons. They just stopped logging in. It started out with a few random members disappearing here and there, then all of the sudden the core members just stopped playing one week.

I tried to like it, I really did. It just isn't fun. It feels like I am playing WoW only less polished and badly designed. The worlds after Tatooine all feel like they were rushed. They all come off as dead and lifeless. You could fill them with players and they would still feel dead to me.

The PvP was bland as well. Same 3 boring WZ over and over. Ilum was just a joke in comparison to what it could have been. Huttball is the worst instanced PvP I have ever experienced in my life.

It just wasn't fun. If I wanted to play WoW I would play WoW. I was hoping for a new experience. Not  a badly designed WoW in space.

Mon Feb 27 2012 9:47AM Report
Ztony writes:

I just registered to make an account here cause I can't even access swtors forums atm due to no subscription..

I paid last month using same method and paypal accounts and everything and now it suddenly doesn't work due to some error.

Then people ask me, do you enjoy a game you can't play? 'ehh no..'

I do like the game, but from the outside it only takes so long before I say 'if you don't want my money i'll give to gw2' 

First time I ever experienced this btw and played 7 years of wow, aion etc. etc.

how to kill your likability of mmo's in 1 move, buy swtor...

Mon Feb 27 2012 12:30PM Report
Yauchy writes:

In all the end game faults, It still had one of the most enjoyable leveling/questing/instancing grinds I've had in any mmo ever (Bioware is just damn good at story).  So at the end of the day, I feel I got my moneys worth on that alone and could walk away happy.

I agree you have valid points, but it seems a bit over-bearing for the sake of grandiosity and the analogy will be apt (somewhat) ... but I'd say the recent cruise ship hitting a reef not the titantic.

Tue Feb 28 2012 8:17AM Report
Vanith writes:

So someone on our guild forums linked to this blog post, which I have read before and mostly agreed with. In response I posted my thought there, and just because I feel the need to rant further...

The RP part of TOR is there, and great, but the end game is a mess; and the endgame is what drives subscription renewal.

Ranting a bit...you can't have a bad 1-50 experience and get a big level 50 population. On the other hand, you can't have a bad end game and expect 1-50 to keep people paying and playing. Speaking only for myself, I did 1-50 once and MIGHT do it again, but much, much slower.

"Mistakes were made" summarizes the Ilum experience as it was with the 30/150/grind to Valor 60 with WZs. There's no way anyone who got to V60, raids, and has Battlemaster gear did not get burnt out - at least some - on the repetition.

Changing Ilum and the much needed changes to crafting to make it at least cosmetically viable are good steps in the right direction, so I have a lot of hope for 1.2. Some more incentive to OWPvP would be nice, but I don't see much that makes me think that's going to happen.

Anyway, long story short, lots of work to do on TOR's level 50 game.

Looking back, I think part of the reason we didn't run into this same "I'm 50 and have nothing to do" malaise with WoW was:


There were people out there to fight in PvP and kill, even pre-1.4 when the Honor system went live.

BGs didn't exist (instanced PvP kills OWPvP no matter what)

The raid progression and gear check was more demanding - Strat, Scholo, LBRS, UBRS, MC.

You had to actually travel places for PvE. Having everything centered around the Fleet in TOR, and the slow loading times, extra stages of travel, in TOR keep people off planets instead of bringing them to them.

I don't remember how long it to me to hit 60 in WoW, but I know it was a MUCH longer time than it took me to hit 50 in TOR.

Wed Feb 29 2012 3:26PM Report
Slyther83 writes:

I wholeheartedly agree with Teala- you don't even need these charts to know that this game is bleeding active players (subsequently subscriptions) at an extremely rapid rate.  Considering how long the game has been out, this is a huge indicator of the widespread dissatisfaction that players have with it.  I rode the Warhammer Online train for a while and it didn't lose players anywhere near this fast.

Fri Mar 02 2012 6:20PM Report
Slyther83 writes:

All I can say is, EA louse called it. 

Fri Mar 02 2012 6:23PM Report
Elikal writes:

With more time distance, I think you were pretty right, Teala. Tortanic indeed. Alas.

Wed Mar 21 2012 10:27PM Report
blackweb writes:

"I really was hoping we'd get a good Star Wars based MMO and at least something as good as WoW."  You are still holding up WoW as the MMO standard?  A game that lost 2 million subscribers in 1 year in 2011 is the MMO standard?   You have no credibility.  WoW Cataclysm sucks, period.  WoW hasnt been the MMO standard for a long time.   You havent got a clue what you are talking about.   I lead a large SWTOR guild and we are doing fine.

Sat Mar 24 2012 5:53AM Report
blackweb writes:

WoW vs. SWTOR - comparing apples to apples or what really matters when comparing MMORPGs.   The key stat when comparing one MMORPG's viability to another is "how many new players are coming to the game or how many players are leveling new characters?"  when the starting zones are empty, its over for an MMORPG.  Lets compare The number of players in WoW's Alliance starting zones on the Maelstrom RP-PvP server to the number of players in the Republic starting zones on the Ven Zallow RP-PvP server from levels 1-20 today, Sunday March 3/25/2012 at 11:00 AM CST.  Both servers are medium population.  Here are the numbers; Maelstrom Alliance 1-20 - 28 characters, Ven Zallow Repuplic - 88 characters.   The numbers speak for themselves.   SWTOR is clearly growing twice as fast as wow by sufficient numbers more than replace any losses due to attrition while WoW is in maintenance mode at best or is slowly losing players.

Sun Mar 25 2012 11:55AM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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