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Teala's Wickedly Cool MMORPG.com Blog For The Masses

Just my thoughts on MMO's, roleplaying, game companies, and the people that play these games.

Author: Teala

I wanted to play a Jedi, not a mage wielding a glowstick.

Posted by Teala Wednesday January 4 2012 at 7:12PM
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I have put a lot of thought into why I think SWTOR is not a very well made or good game, after  I bailed on beta because I just couldn't get into the game.  One of the things that drove me away early on was that I couldn’t connect with my Jedi character.  And I think that is the thing that ruined this game for me the most, and why I couldn't connect with my Jedi character(Consular/Sage) is because she lacked even basic Jedis skills that I thought Jedis would have.  I was hoping that I would be able to play a Jedi like the kind we saw in the movies.   I wanted to play the Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon Jinn Jedi.   But when I got into game expecting to play a Jedi...that is not what I found.   What I found was that Bioware took the iconic Jedi and turned them into bubble casting mages that wield raver lightsticks for looks.

Watch Obi-Wan fight Darth Maul -

this is how a Jedi fights if they must fight.


Where is the skill to block incoming blaster bolts?  Don’t say they do this in game and I do not know what I am talking about.  It is not a skill, it is a showy graphic that does nothing.  It is there for looks and nothing more.  Most of the time your character stands and the blaster bolts hit them.  It is just there for show.

Where is the skill to distract - so we can avoid conflict?

Where is the skill to just "force" push an enemy?

Where are the lightsaber combat skills - Consulars get two strikes - one that is pretty much useless and the other does a horizontal back and forth strike - that's it?

Where are the basic melee hand-to-hand skills?

It's cool that we can toss rocks from out of nowhere and or grab some buried droid and toss them, instead of grabbing a droid that is standing 2 meters away shooting at us, and tossing him.   That makes perfect sense.    ::rolls her eyes::

So I just have to ask.   Why didn’t you give us the ability to play a Jedi?

Why didn't they give us the ability to block incoming blaster bolts using a skill named "bolt deflection"?

Young Jedi learning to deflect blaster bolts.



Padawans in the movies and stories learn early on how to do this.  It is a basic skill taught to all Jedis.  It is one of the best things about being a Jedi is using your lightsaber to deflect incoming blaster bolts.   Why didn't they add it as a skill that we could progressively get better at.   It would last for x amount of time when activated deflecting x% of shots.   This skill should get to where you can block almost all incoming bolts and eventually be able to redirect one or some of the shots back at the one that fired it at you.    That to me makes more sense than casting a force shield; and deflecting shots by a Jedi using a lightsaber is more in line with Star Wars than casting a force shield.  A force shield is good for protecting a friendly.   Jedis use lightsabers to protect themselves not some bubble.

Second...give all Jedis various lightsaber combat skills and not just one or two.   It is silly that the main weapon of a Jedi is a lightsaber and yet it is relegated to being nothing more than something we turn on to denote we're in combat and are a Jedi.   All Jedis should be able to use their lightsabers to some degree of proficiency.   Go back and watch any of the movies or read any of the books, all Jedis are trained in the use of the lightsaber and it is their primary weapon to not only protect them, but to also incapacitate, or kill enemies they face.

Consulars get some weird form of force push.   They do this awkward jump into the air, then come down sending out a what looks like a raindrop hitting a puddle wave thingy, only it is not water it is air stirring up dust so you can see the effect.   Why?  Just give us what we saw in the movies.  That would be so much cooler.   No need to do any fancy dust wavy effects, just let us use force push to knock enemies down(Jedi Guardians and Sentinals get this I believe, but Consulars get the stupid jumpy, wavy crap) that is all we need and that is more Jedi’sh than that awful poorly animated thing you gave Consulars.

It is cool that you allowed us to grab an object and throw it at an enemy using the force.   To have us magically lift a droid out of the ground - so just how is that suppose to be Star Warsy?  How about allow us to grab a crate(there are always crates, boxes, pipes, boulders etc, etc, etc) and toss it instead.  That is what we saw in Star Wars.   Never did we see a Jedi jerk some long buried droid from beneath the ground to toss at someone.  In fact we can be standing on a metal plated deck of a ship and grab a driod from beneath it and toss it!   That is just - well - stupid.  You could have done better Bioware.

Vader shows how throwing an object using the force is done.

He ripped stuff off walls.  They didn't magically appear from beneath his feet!


Also, why didn’t you give all Jedi the ability to distract an enemy/ies?  It should be a basic skill.  To me that would be awesome and more in-line with the skill of being a Jedi.  We don’t even get this simple skill to avoid fighting.   Nope.  We must fight - always.   How Jedi’sh is that?

Where are the cool defensive and offensive moves Jedis are famous for?  Where is our ability to force leap to a high place or force jump a gap, or control our fall?  Master Windu did a backflip off a ledge that was at least 15 meters from the ground and landed safely.   Anikin jumped from a flying speeder and landed on one hundreds of feet below him.   Every Jedi learns acrobatics to avoid being hit in melee or even to avoid being shot?  Where are their moves in SWTOR?  

When I looked at this game when it was first announced I was like, cool, maybe they will get it right and allow us to play Jedis they way we see them in the movies.  Now that would be so very cool.   Sadly Bioware decided to give us something that is a wanna be Jedi - because in my opinion what they gave us is not the Jedis we saw in the movies and read about.  

It’s cool you wished to expand their abilities, what is not cool is not giving all Jedis the basic skills one would expect a Jedi to have.  That is not cool at all, and in my case helped turn me away from your game, because well...I wanted to play a Jedi.

Personally, I think Bioware needs to go back and rewrite, and redo, all the Jedi classes in this game and make them play like Jedis.  It is sad that certain Jedis and Sith do more damage using a skill to throw rocks or cast lightning rather than use their primary weapon - the one weapon that defines a Jedi - their lightsaber.   Imagine watching a Samurai movie and all the Samurai use magic abilities and none use their signature sword - the katana.   Not very cool huh...same goes for SWTOR - I never felt like I was playing a Jedi.  I felt like I was playing a mage wielding a glowstick.


 

Doomedfox writes:

I can tell that you gave the game a fair chance and all your points are well thought through and you are in no way biased at all....

Ok seriously Jedis do get an aoe Force push dont they?

The Force choke ability is pretty cool too.

They do get more than the 2 lightsaber attacks IF you do pick a class that actually fights with the LS also they have more than 1 animation for the attacks which is pretty neat.

You want to be able to deflect all range attacks? Yes right and while we are at it lets give you infinite HP/Force and invincible shield for all other attacks and maybe a piece of candy yes?

I wonder if you complain in other games that the tank using a shield cant block all attacks after all he got a shield and shield training so let him block all attacks....

I am not saying that the game is perfect in fact i think it needs some serious improvements if it wants to keep a reasonable playerbase but your points are so biased its not even fun anymore.

Wed Jan 04 2012 8:54PM Report
Laughing-man writes:

Different types of Jedi are represented by different classes, the tanking types have blaster bolt deflections and things of that sort, if you want a variety of attacks and such then you should go the "warrior" arch type not the "caster" arche type, thats why you feel like a mage with a glow stick, you essentially are. 

You wanna feel like Vader?  Play a sith Warrior, you wanna feel like Obi wan?  Play a Jedi knight.

They can't have all force users doing all force things, that would make it impossible to balance in a class type way.  Perhaps if they went sand box you could have all jedi doing all jedi type sof things..

I understand what you are saying though, and I in fact agree with a lot of your complaints, yet I think some of them might just be you didn't play the class you wanted or were looking for.

 

Just my two cents.

Wed Jan 04 2012 11:29PM Report
Yamota writes:

Damn you Teala, just when I managed to ignore all the short comings of this game you again brought up things that are really common sense and now I wont be able to play my Jedi consular anymore :)

Joking aside, I agree with you 100%. I actually stopped playing my Consular because I thought I would be able to use my lightsaber, because you know I am a Jedi right?

Instead I was some kind of weird healer/mage type of character that almost never use my lightsaber.

That is why this game IS a reskinned WoW clone. They just took the typical fantasy archetypes, tanks, DPS, healers, mages and called them Sith Warriors, Jedi Knights and Jedi Sages.

It is just plain stupid...

Thu Jan 05 2012 8:09AM Report
Jenadara writes:

If you wanted to play a melee character, then roll the jedi knight, not the consular. *sigh*

Thu Jan 05 2012 9:29AM Report
abrafaxe writes:

mhm true and when you play a sentinel you have to run around just to slash somebody just so you wont be able to get hit directly by the blaster bolts :|

@jenadara

but at the start of the swtor development obi wan was branded as jedi consular, you dont see obi wan just throwing pebbles and dead droids in the movies right? :|

Thu Jan 05 2012 10:33AM Report
teakbois writes:

Im guessing Teala never saw return of the Jedi.  Palpatine's main damage certainly wasnt from his lightsaber.

 

There were clearly missed oppurtunities (like having EQ1 style pulling where Jedis could use mind tricks to single pull), but most of the stuff teala wants is in the game with the Jedi Knights.  Including a defensive ability called 'Saber Ward'.

Thu Jan 05 2012 10:46AM Report
teakbois writes:

Also, its only 1 of the 4 Jedi classes that doesnt have a ton of melee abilities.

Thu Jan 05 2012 10:49AM Report
Teala writes: Teakbois, saber ward is a bubble, too. Got to work, will discuss this later. Thu Jan 05 2012 10:57AM Report
Lateris writes:

I find the Dark Force Powers to line up with the expanded universe rather nicely within gameplay per design. The Jedi are weak. ;)

Thu Jan 05 2012 6:25PM Report
teakbois writes:

'Teakbois, saber ward is a bubble, too. Got to work, will discuss this later.'

Yeah, this is true.  I dont fully disagree on the whole issue, but you were playing the 1 of the 4 Jedi classes that is meant to be a ranged class as opposed to the other 75% that focus on lightsaber combat.

Its basically the shortcomings of developing the star wars world into a class structure.  They could have certainly tweaked things a bit like adding in a saber reflect for al classes, and maybe with the right feedback they will in an expansion.

 

But I cant blame them for taking the safest route with a game of ths budget when its your first game.  I dont know the credentals of the whole staff, but Im betting that even Rift's team had significantly more MMORPG experience than SWTOR's.  They stck with what they know (Bioware style storytelling) and with what has gotten results in the past.

 

Maybe once they have their feet on solid ground they can start thinking outside the box more.

 

I can't see myself playing past GW2 release with the current game, but then I can never last more than 2 weeks at a time in Rift no matter how hard i try, I max out aboout the same in LOTRO.  EQ2 and WoW are the only themeparks that have held my attention long term, or even medium term.  EQ2 has the most immersiveness and WoW has the most fun combat.  I find SWTOR's combat significantly more fun than LOTR and Rift at least.  but its like being the tallest midget.

Thu Jan 05 2012 8:39PM Report
steuss writes:

TO everyone saying don't play a Jedi Sage if you want to be a melee Jedi, You've missed the entire point of Teala's post.

Yes, BW did design the Sage class as a ranged nuker/healer, but why did they make it a jedi as it has No jedi-ish qualities? The Sage Never uses the Light Sabre, which is the most iconic weapon of all time, and a Jedi = Lightsabre. How can you not use it? it is mind boggling. I agree with Teala, the class should be called Magical Nuke Wizard instead of Jedi.

It feels like it is a forced combination. BW had a certain number of classes they wanted and forced it onto the Jedi name.

Fri Jan 06 2012 2:03AM Report
fansede writes:

While I can see Taelas frustration I think we have to consider a few things:

- Balance - If a Jedi Consular has more melee skills would there be a reason to play a Jedi Knight? If a Jedi could deflect everything would they be able to be overcome by non force users at all?

- how much lag would there be if jedi animations were used to execute a multitude of manuevers , deflections and the like. Movies are great inspirations and we would certainly love that type of action in all our MMOS. Do we have any MMOs that have that kind of combat?

- I think the concept of the bubble is to give the semblance of the jedi protection. yes yoda didn't pop a force bubble on himself before taking on Tyrannus/Sidious, but he did absorb their force lightning with his hands/ not blocking with his lightsaber

 

Fri Jan 06 2012 10:46AM Report
fansede writes:

the whole throwing an object  via force is definitely a simplication. i don't think Bioware wanted to go the direction of DC Universe where you had to select a target to throw from the environment . Maybe they should have put it in a skill tree for advanced players - but as a general skill, I like how they kept it simple. Easy to get start/ Play - difficult to master

Fri Jan 06 2012 10:49AM Report
StSynner writes:

If you wanted a Jedi... should have made a Jedi instead of passing on it for the OP mage IMHO. Most of what you ask for can be found in the Jedi melee class. The other part of what you want is nonexistant because the combat system is EXACTLY the same as every other MMO without an ounce of innovation. No dodge. No block. Just stand there and take the hits.

When *I* think of a Jedi/Sith I think of fluid and graceful combat... not ... this crap.

PS: No... it is NOT mind boggling. The Sith Sorc and Jedi Sage were designed around Palpatine and Yoda who used the force as a weapon instead of relying on their lightsabers as much as the other Jedi/Sith. So I go back to my original statement... you wanted a Jedi with fancy saber techniques but you picked the one that rarely uses the saber. Once again... creating yet another reason to QQ. 

Simple solution: un-sub

More realistic solution: re-roll

What will actually happen: Nothing... and we will get even more of these amazing "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" topics.

Synner's suggestion for your next topic: "Hoth is too white."

Fri Jan 06 2012 10:51AM Report
Teala writes:

So I know some of you read what  I wrote, but I have to wonder if any of you actually comprehend what I wrote.  I am not asking that all Jedi play the same, but we all should have a "basic" set of sabers skills.  Not one...not two...not three...but a basic set of like 4 or 5 saber strikes minimum.   The only reason you have so many different types of Jedis in this game is because Bioware had to fill out the classes somehow.   So they watered down the Jedis and turned them into mages with glowsticks.  

We should all have the ability to block incoming blaster bolts to some degree, and that skill should scale according to level.  That includes how much damage it mitigates, and how long we can keep the protection up.  No we should not be able to block blaster bolts forever.  Just as no active skill last forever...it should be on a timer.  Last 3 seconds and have a cooldown.  It should cost us force points.

Second.   As I stated, there are other things Jedis can throw, why do they have to magically appear from the ground beneath our feet.  I mean we grab droids from beneath our feet on a ship?  Out in the middle of nowhere?   Just how many buried droids are there?  Is there a droid graveyard everywhere?   I can only suspend disbilief so much.  There were other ways to do this.   I cannot believe that people think this is acceptable.  

Also, the primary weapon of all Jedis is the lightsaber.  No Sidious and Yoda did not cast magical fireballs out their arse.   Sidious used his lightning when he could, not becuase it was powerful, but because it was fast.   He still relied heavily on his lightsaber.  We saw this on a couple of occasions.  Like when Master Windu went to arrest him.   Two when he was confronted by Yoda.

It saddens me that they took the one thing about Star Wars that made it special - Jedis with lightsabers, and turned them into mages with glowsticks.  Congrats Bioware.  I now know why I couldn't connect with my character - because she was not a Jedi in a game about Jedis, Sith and Star Wars!   She was watered down and turned into a mage with useless glowstick!

That is truly sad.

Fri Jan 06 2012 11:20AM Report
teakbois2 writes:

'She was watered down and turned into a mage with useless glowstick!'

I get what you are saying overall, but *knowing* it was class based and there are 4 jedi 'classes' you took the one with the mageish name and are now complaining it plays like a mage, where as Sentinel, Guardian and Shadow do not feel like mages at all.  To me, it makes it tough to take what you are saying seriously, and I tend to agree with what you say about 80% of the time.

Fri Jan 06 2012 4:25PM Report
Teala writes:

Teakbois, you keep saying I should have picked a different class.  I picked to play a Jedi.   A Jedi Consular.   Jedi is the keyword.   I was hoping even a Consular would have had basic, you know, Jedi skills we have come to know and associate with Jedi.   The Consular stuff would just be extended abilities of the Jedi.   As it turns out, they watered down the point that it is Jedi in name only.   There is nothing Jedi about the Consular class.  It is a mage with a glowstick.   Even the Jedi Knights in the game are watered down versions of Jedi.    Thanks for the discussion.  It was fun.

Fri Jan 06 2012 7:12PM Report
cirdane writes:

The very point you make is one of the many things that made me aviod this game. No way can you make the feel of Jedi if you stick to mmo arctypes and thats what they did. I knew this was comming as a long time star trek fan, the first time I showed up at a star base to sell my phasers at the auctjion house to buy new ones I wanted to puke.

starwars/startrek needed more out of the box thinking in the design phase. the lazy tank/healer/dps model kills both games the Idea should have stayed in the fantasy arena not been reskined in the sci-fi one.

what you are seeing is the results of BW saying "ok here is the DPS. Now we have to make it look all Jedi" when the process should have been "ok this is every thing a jedi is how do we make it into a game? "

Fri Jan 06 2012 8:13PM Report
Alleneira writes:

The problem with the jediclass/es are related to the gameworld and the design of the now so often used and copied themepark world with which WoW had and still has such an huge success.

That is the reason why you force-pull a rock or droid out of the ground, instead of grabing a crate. Bioware could maybe have put lots of crates around, but then the artificial world in SWTOR would look even more artifical, not to mention that your force-pull ability would often have no use then.

 

It is the same problem with the cover mechanic. You need to put it all over the place and then it doesnt look natural anymore and more as if the devs try to show your char on how you have to play and if you make an world with lots of normal objects and an real force-pull ability like the Gravity Gun in Half-Life 2, then I can PROMISE!!!! you, that you will get annoyed that every fucker tosses the stuff around and that the world doesnt look appealing due to all the crates and other things which lie and fly around.

 

Also, Bioware had to water and dump down the jediclass so that even a mere Trooper is as valuable as an Jedi.

Who of you would play an Trooper/Agent/<insert non jedi class> when an jedi outperforms you at just any aspect of the game like it should be according to the lore?

Would you like to see an jedi reflecting nearly half of the incomming blaster shots? Force grabing and throwing around Droids, while he jumps 10m into the air, before he finishes an army of droids off with gracefull and elegant moves... while you are a non jedi, getting all the damage from the blaster shots and without any of these fancy and astonishing moves?

If Bioware didnt turned down the jedi, then the only other choice would be to limit that class, but as you see at Tealas post the jedis and lightsabers are one of the biggest selling points in any star wars game.

And so you ended up with an normal and so often seen mmo class with a glowing ravestick, instead of an normal sword/staff.

 

I think that Star Wars is one of the worst playgrounds to make an MMO out of it, alone due to the reason that Jedis are semi-god-like but also the biggest selling point in the whole universe. Still SWG made it decent with making the jedi a real threat while still limiting the class... at least till SWG turned into Jedi Online.

 

Still, some claim that it might be lore related... that not every Jedi is so strong like Luke, Vader, Yoda, Revan and so on. But that are the only Jedis you tend to see or play in movies or games.

Not to mention that the story of SWTOR plays several years after nearly all Jedis died, hence they might have lost most of their knowledge on how to train other jedis.

At least that is what I remember from playing KOTOR 2. Cant recall though how many years passed since the ending of KOTOR 2 to SWTOR.

 

I for one also played the Beta, but not as Jedi and I could only endure it for 1 day. Thats why I cant judge of there is a lack of lightsaber abilities or flashy moves at the jediclass.

Anyway, my problem with the game was the lifeless and dull world, lack of atmosphere and very boring combat. In another post Teala summed most flaws up, which destroyed the  gaming fun for me.

Fri Jan 06 2012 8:14PM Report
jeremyjodes writes:

Your talking about forms and various attacks that go with those forms. It would be cool if they added the seven forms of the jedi order. not sure how many were available at the time line they have created TOR in. all jedis are trained in a form with a lighsaber.

It was strange to see healing jedi's and I understand what your talking about. They would have had to ditch the VO to add them all and the various levels of traning :P

Fri Jan 06 2012 10:45PM Report
mmoguy43 writes:

Actually seeing healing jedi is right on. But healing Sith is very odd to me. I'm surprised Teala hasn't made a rant just for that too. (uh oh, I just gave an idea)

I could help educate Teala why game design is the way it is but Alleneira did well to explain it. It's a game, not a simulator, a game.

I must be jadedgamer proof or something to see all these flaws and others unsaid yet despite them still really enjoy the game.

Sat Jan 07 2012 12:05PM Report
demonic87 writes:

A jedi is whatever the hell bioware and lucas arts makes it. You have no say in what a jedi can and can't do.

Sat Jan 07 2012 4:04PM Report
NeokiNaomi writes:

Damn Kristi, I've followed your blogs for a while, but this one dissappointed me a bit. I don't respect you any less, but you really did hit the hammer on the WRONG class. All the points you raised (Aside from saber deflect) are answered by Jedi Knight/Sentinel class.

I myself play a sith marauder, and a Juggernaut, on my juggernaut I have force push, choke, stun etc etc. The abilities are there, they are just spread out. SWG is dead, and Pre-patch 17 jedi's to go with it, I'm still never going to get over that either, I miss my Guardian, but we shouldn't destroy biowares name just because they fell short of the margin. How can we expect any new "Next big thing" games if gamers are going to keep comparing and comparing. I view Jedi consular as a Yoda type class, yes Yoda could kick some serious acrobatic butt in saber fights, but his true power was his knowledge of the force and telekinetic powers.

Anyways, some of us love the game. It appears to have that "Love it, or hate it" aspect, everyone has their own taste. I'm sorry you don't share the same love that I do for the game. Maybe I'll cya in Planetside 2 or GW2. But from the looks of it this will be my last MMO. I think MMORPG's in general are just running out of their prime for me, I'm having a blast playing matched games like Tribes: Ascend on the side, or even logging into EVE online and blasting away for a bit making some isk. New games these days seem to stand no chance for the average consumer.

Sat Jan 07 2012 6:17PM Report
Maggon writes:

Playing a Jedi Consular Shadow here which is a lot more based on my lightsaber (or Double-bladed lightsaber in this case), though I do run around pulling stuff out of the ground (rocks out of ships metal floor etc >_<), as well as doing some sort of wave attack which is called "slow time", even so the animations for Shadow/Assassin aren't exactly what I had hoped them to be that is the consular's melee build.

I can easily see where you are coming from and I do agree to most of what you are saying. Though saying that all consular's are mages with a glow stick is not entirely true due to the advance class system they got in place.

But seeing Sages standing around with their lightsaber out and just pulling stuff out of the ground or throwing pepple, does seem rather weird, and been wondering about this a lot my self as that lightsaber is pretty much just useless for sages/sorcs :/

Sat Jan 07 2012 6:42PM Report
thekid1 writes:

"It's cool that we can toss rocks from out of nowhere and or grab some buried droid and toss them, instead of grabbing a droid that is standing 2 meters away shooting at us, and tossing him.   That makes perfect sense.    ::rolls her eyes::"

 

You're kidding right? Magically appearing rocks and droid you can throw but not actually (NPC) enemies??

The more I read about this game the more I'm baffled how actually completely retarded and crap some aspects are.

Sun Jan 08 2012 2:52PM Report
Liquidcurse writes:

Would it have mattered if there was a single "Jedi" class with trees with seperate focuses on force powers and lightsaber combat, and some other third, for example? (or dismiss a third tree specifically). As for tearing chunks out of the ground or random object to be used as a projectile I think it would be most feasable to use such a tactic to represent a telekinetic attack. I guess some powers could be reimagined and redesigned, a fault of timetables and schedules, giving way to a lack of creativity, as posters here put it.

For its faults I find myself more overwhelmed by what SWTOR has to offer than dissapointed. That's a good thing. People complain about how classes are in the game just for MMO archetype filler. As I played the game I see differences from the "WoW pan-fundamentals" people complain so much about, such as the companion system (crafting and battle), visceral lightsaber combat, the "cover" system. There may be critique about how the archtypes in SWTOR are designed in such a way that they feel like cheap, underthought, easy solutions to what plague most mmos. The talent systems in SWTOR do provide a line to specialization for each of the advanced classes, (*gasp! like WoW!*) which allow for greater strength within limits, after all its not like we can specialize in all the trees.

I'd write more, but I'd be a jerk trying to place an article scoped post in a comment to a blog. Here's what I'm trying to say. In my opinion, despite visual discrepancies and game mechanics other people thought would be more groundbreaking and appealing (people complain, again), I think SWTOR is a subscription worthy MMO, like any other video game on the market, its not for everyone, but I do believe the subscription totals are justified, and this game won't bomb as long as the subs provide resources for new content for this game.

Sun Jan 08 2012 5:38PM Report
wootin writes:

Everything you mention was in Jedi Academy. I am always confused by the unwillingness of game companies to take something cool that was done 10 years ago and use it, especially when they own the rights and source code :/

Oil well, they had to WoW-MMO it instead of doing something unique, so I guess having those artificially divided classes being odd and weak is just par for the course.

Tue Jan 10 2012 1:42AM Report
BadSpock writes:

6/8 Jedi/Sith Advanced classes are melee based.

2/8 of 8 are pure ranged.

2/8 are melee based with some mid-ranged support/damage abilities.

2/8 are melee based with a few "flavor" mid-range abilities.

Umm... lols?

You picked the wrong class/AC and wrote this article?

Waste of time...

Tue Jan 10 2012 11:37AM Report
Teala writes:

That is not how I see it Badspock.  What I see is watered down versions of what Jedis are.  All Jedis, no matter if they are Consular or Knight, they should all have certain basic saber attacks, certain bolt blocking abilities, and basic force skills.  After that, they can specialize.   As it is now, none of them are what I consider Jedis.    I got to play a Jedi Knight on a friends account and after playing it(level 50 Guardian) it didn't play like a Jedi - not in the context of the Jedis we see in the movies.    Plus do not tell me they couldn't put a Jedi in game in the context that we know them.   Of course they can.   Just give them Jedis skills.  Casting bubbles, only using force leap to attack and some of the other silly moves does not a Jedi make.   Bioware watered down the Jedi class in the game.   They turned them into casters with glowsticks.  

As I have stated they should all have basic Jedis skills, attacks, and defensive moves.   As they are now, they are not Jedis.  BTW nobody is asking for them to be OP.  Just make them Jedis as we see them in the movies.  A Jedi with one saber attack is not a Jedi.  A Jedi that cannot use a standard force push is not a Jedi.  A Jedi that cannot force leap is not a Jedi.   A jedi that cannot lift or force grab and toss an object is not a Jedi.  Magically ripping a droid out of the deck of a ship is what a mage might do...not a Jedi.

BTW that is my opinion.   Bioware, you and whoever else can think I am wrong all you want, I'll stick by my "opinion" and call it like I see it - Jedis in SWTOR are nothing more than mages with glowsticks.

Tue Jan 10 2012 1:59PM Report
BadSpock writes:

I respect your viewpoint, but in the end all things in a MMO are trumped by "balance."

If every Jedi could do all of those things, they would be extremely OP (even more so then consulars/inquisitors are now!)

So in the end, the realism (from a Sci Fi movies lol) is skewed in order to facilitate better game play.

Could they have followed that and made things better? Maybe. But how?

If all Jedi and Sith got a basic Force Push, would you then have to take away the Consular/Inquisitor AoE push back for the sake of balance?

If all Jedi in game could block blaster bolts as efficiently as in the movies, 4 of the classes would be 100% useless in game play.

If a Consular/Inquisitor could Force leap, why would they? Why would the Emperor, blasting Luke with streams of lightning bolts, suddenly decide to leap right next to Luke and pimp slap him with a Lightsaber?

Games based 100% on realism are generally boring.

We watch movies and play games to do things and see things we can't do in real life.

Balance trumps all.

Of course, the fact remains, 6 out of 8 times, Jedi are far more in TOR than mages with glowsticks.

2/8 times you are 100% right though lol

Tue Jan 10 2012 2:59PM Report
Ifcwhuffes writes: Kinda sad to see so many ppl that cant even understand what they are reading. Did they read the post? Sure. Did they understand it? Not one bit. ive seen like 3 posts by ppl that actually talked about the points the OP made. Tue Jan 10 2012 11:45PM Report
zephermarkus writes:

The game was rushed plays nothing like kotor and imo failed..It was a better game back in ealy closed beta before they started getting all cooki cutter and trying to finish the game fast.

Teala is right..I want my Star wars nge back at least i could play a real jedi even if pre nge was better i would take nge over swtor anyday.

I wanna know when i get kotor 3 cause this  mmo doesn't even do kotor justice.

p.s  WoW has ruined the mmo genre r.i.p

Wed Jan 11 2012 12:35AM Report
Angier2758 writes:

Teala... in terms of jedi consulars there are ones that never used their lightsabers..... they still wore them because people feared them.  All jedi do not use all the tricks... you're also the first person I heard who thought obi-want was a consular....everyone I've talked to (and a lot in game too) thinks he fits much better in the jedi guardian class.

I have to wonder if you go into this game with a really negative attitude that you'll find things to hate.

Wed Jan 11 2012 9:23AM Report
Astropuyo writes:

The Sage is much like yoda with a two sided glow bat.  Strong in the force are they.

The  consular is one of the many "non fighting" types of Jedi in Star Wars lore (KOTR more so) they are the diplomats and teachers. You want to be like Luke? Anakin,Obi?

Guardian is for you.

Did you get to your advanced class? As to become like maul you should rolled sith. If you wanted a sneaky ninja? Shadow is for you. The shadow rates as a great tank.

Want to slam people around with force deathiness? Sage.

 

Usually it's easy to tell whom has gone into the game far enough to critique it , you pretty much seem to have played Ty and that is it . Otherwise you'd of found being a Shadow is what you want.

I agree a block button would of been nice even if it was just a temp buff to display more bolts blasting back but that is not iconic starwars to me. That's just batting plasma with plasma, I'm happy that there is the effect at all and it shows them flying back.

 

You are knit picking. You believe all jedi should have all the abilities but then if you head on back to the old KOTR series you will see these core concepts have been kept.

I play exclusively as a guardian now and it's one of the most "Jedi" classes I've played. It's right there with "Vanguard" in terms of iconic role play.

 

The Jedi had specializations as there were so many of them that they could afford that. Such was the population.

 

During the fall of the republic (Clone wars) they still had specializations.

When everyone died in essence the ability to specialize kind of goes out the window.

I'd understand if you had bothered to get to any level to pick your secondary class, or if you had played the role you wanted to be (Shadow or Guardian) but you didn't or do not appear to have.

Play KOTR and see that this fits into it's tradition and canon of the era.

 

The game has it's issues but these? These are rather invalid and are certainly uninformed.

 

 

Wed Jan 11 2012 10:46AM Report
sazabi writes:

i agree with the article.

this game is nothing like pretty much all the past star wars games or most importantly - the movies.

what is swtor then? O_o

Wed Jan 11 2012 10:47AM Report
Liquidcurse writes:

I believe  SWTOR is set thousands of years before the movies were. Hence, the Jedi society would be different. This still won't stop people from complaining with the basis of constant comparison to the movies. With a 27 shadow and 28 sage I can tell you more authenticity would be valid comparing this game to the universe KOTOR, a star wars game from the same company, also acknoledged as canon, set millenia before the movies were. I've read enough of the posts in self-proclaimed mmorpg game forums of people saying this game is like WoW with a Star Wars skin on it. Its as if nobody wants, INCLUDING the complainers, want anything else. Who are they kidding, its all they think about. Its like saying Super Mario Bros. is like Contra, and all you do is jump around more and spitting fireballs is replaces with flamethrowers and machine guns.

OP, what you suggest requires a complete overhaul of the game's mechanics, which requires rebalancing, then a change in the game's setting and storyline. That would create complications in Bioware's production (think of deals between Lucasarts and Bioware's games production with regards to canon).

As in my last post there are some design elements which most consider inconsistent with the star wars universe, or just unappealing to some. Its setting allows for some liberty in choice of design. WoW with a Star Wars skin IS NOT a game killing aspect of this game. If you follow that logic, the original KOTOR itself is a derivative of Final Fantasy VI's active battle system.

There are enough subleties in TOR's mechanics that offer a different feel in timing and flow which separates it from World of Warcraft and doesn't feel boring, Maybe the Net effect of the whole game might not resonate with some, and from a design standpoint that's an extremely hard thing to gage.

Would you say Bioware/EA's choices with the content in SWTOR the reason you can't connect with the character you made, Teala? Yes, the Jedi follow more rigid disciplines, yeah you see what on the surface are cookie cutter character classes and mechanics which lower/lowered your hopes for TOR.

I'd say with the large scale discussions and flame wars over the internets over mmos these days, it is time for something different. But to ensure sales these games have to be something mmo veterans are akin to and newcomers can identify with. I mean what's the reason WoW became more popular than EQ, and all the later mmos whom most internet dwellers assume have the goal of killing WoW but just don't?

Wed Jan 11 2012 4:29PM Report
Tethered writes:

I do not think she is saying that each one should be uber jedi lightsaber wielding gods...but more attack sequences would probably be cool, they do not have to do super damage, and if the Consular is the mage type, should they not have a distract type force skill along with other force based abilities over and above the melee types?

I do not play the game so I am just firing this out my arse but I read a lot about it and Teala usually picks out the same type stuff which would bug the crap out of me so I am waiting until something else comes along or they do a major update.. 

Wed Jan 11 2012 6:45PM Report
Classicstar writes:

But your still playing the game a so called sandbox fan who play a mmo that for years is well known for a super casual game. So watered down should not surprise you AT ALL?

If you are realy a sandbox fan and realy dont like casual themeparks and on several occasions you have said that over and over again should never BOUGHT this game PERIOD.

Its your own fault and whine after playing while you knew upfront it would be a dumb down MOTHER of all MMO'S.

So my advice to you stop crying start playing games you realy love instead follow masses becouse its so hyped and you wanne belong lol

Fri Jan 13 2012 3:37PM Report
Teala writes:

forest-nl, I am an MMO fan, I play WoW, I played EVE, I played AC2 even! There are not many AAA MMO's I haven't played or at least beta'd.   I never bought Aion, now Warhammer, or LoTR, or Rift, and I certainly haven't bought SWTOR(though I did get it as a gift) and am currently not playing it.   My experience I am writing about regarding the game came from beta.

Second sentence in thisvery blog entry says..."I bailed ob beta because I couldn't get into the game."

BTW I can be a fan MMO's, themepark, sandbox, MMOFPS - whatever..as long as the game is well made and pays attention to even the small "details".   If I am critical of a game there is a reason for it.  You might not agree with my opinion, but then again, I do not agree with people that think SWTOR is a game deserving an 8/10 score.

Fri Jan 13 2012 3:46PM Report
thg7f writes:

I agree I dislike the sage/inquisitor...  but the assasin/shadow was a very well thought out class to me.  I used lightning effects on longish cd's and relied on my saberstaff to kill things.

Sat Feb 25 2012 12:30AM Report

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