I love visiting these forums but sometimes it can be a very frustrating experience. My main issue is that only in this genre (or rather mmorpg forums) do you see this mindset:
"Well World of Warcraft has over 10 million subscribers so everyone should clone it."
OR you'll see this logic:
"No one should ever try anything new. Just clone World of Warcraft that's the best business sense."
Basically, their aim is to always argue against producing 'niche' titles. So to them games like Champions Online, WELL Online, All Points Bulletin, Fallen Earth, and EVE Online does not make great business sense to them
Now let's dissemble this logic bit by bit.
Point #1:
A title can optimize their content to exceed at beating a competitor in a niche area.
Essentially what this means is that games that optimize their content can excel at a small, focused area and beat their titan competitor in that area. For example, World of Warcraft currently does not allow Guilds to takeover land and fight for control. However, EVE Online does. So, CCP/EVE can provide a feature that their competitor does not have.
After all, just look to other genres to see this principle being put to motion. FPS games are still experiencing monster sales right? Call of Duty 4 was #1 in the last month for highest selling PC title period. Why? They optimized their title to focus on a niche. Single player gaming and online shooter. So- why can't this work in MMORPG space as well? Surely if a shooter can outsell World of Warcraft along with everything else, it can be done? Note: this is sales data from pre-WoTLK
Point #2:
Small potatoes to one company is big potatoes to another
EVE Online only has around 250k subscriptions right? Compared to World of Warcraft that must seem small. However, one should look at this relatively. CCP is a fairly small studio. 250k subscriptions can provide a nice steady income allowing them to invest in other ventures such as the White Wolf merger, produce other MMOs (like World Of Darkness), and invest in TV ads for existing titles.
Rich is rich. Someone at EVE Online/CCP one can safely assume is making a very nice income.
And that my friends is the bottom line. A Small studio has a lot less hands out there looking for their cut in comparison to Activision/Blizzard. There's a lot more hands to share the wealth
Point #3:
Making a WoW clone does not guarantee success
Basically, post-WoW, we've seen clones in various segments. Tabula Rasa was very WoW like complete with Classes, linear development, etc. Very few innovations. The Class tree concept may seem original to many but sorry friends- that was done in Asian MMORPGs (Rappelz anyone?). TR was canceled by NCSoft. The combat system was something new but alas, there were still dice rolls in the background.
Next up we have Lord of The Rings Online which has lower subscriptions then EVE Online. Granted, it's a WoW clone without the PVP aspects (unless you consider Monster Play)
Age of Conan hasn't been doing so well. Here, we saw a game developer spread themselves way beyond their fixed budget and tried to deliver something way beyond them
People will make excuse after excuse when this has happened but bottom line- at least in Age of Conan's case, a game developer can easily extend themselves way beyond their fixed budgets in an attempt to surpass Blizzard.
I could keep going on and on but I think Point #2 really nails it. A small, mobile company that has a lot more creative freedom can take more risks and win big. After all, they have to take risks to get noticed. They do not have big name IPs like Conan or Warhammer so they have to work hard to get attention to their titles.
Also with game development, like most other things in life, you have to decide how to allocate your resources. Do you want to be a jack-of-all-trades where you have Raids, PVE, and PVP. But due to the fixed budget and time constraints, you find that you have done everything lackluster. So this is why most independants will surely specialize on specific areas and refine that experience so they can deliver solid experiences on fixed budgets
I agree with you. But unfortunately, the only MMORPG's that have succeeded post-WoW have been similar to WoW. And the ones who don't. The whole LOTRO has less subscriptions thing I would believe, but for the past two months there has been significant queues across all the servers. It has become more and more successful over time.
Sat Nov 29 2008 2:48PM Report
The bold irony of cloning WoW is that Warcraft took the interface of Anarchy Online and DAOC and combined it with the addictive PvE formula of Everquest -- then capitalized on the name recognition of Warcraft, and tweaked the system requirements down. Problem is, Blizzard succeeded so well because of the last two -- especially the Warcraft name. That's something no company can just emulate, and until they figure that out, too many more of these clones will fail.
Sat Nov 29 2008 3:39PM ReportSo i cover my own butt: The DAOC/AO interface might itself have been copied from Asheron's Call, but don't quote me on that. Point is, the core of WoW is older than even WoW hehe.
Sat Nov 29 2008 3:40PM ReportThe people who want to play WoW, are already playing it.
Why make a game that is essentially the same? Who will play it?
There may be 10 - 11 million people subbed to WoW, but what about the REST OF THE GAMING WORLD? There are more people who do NOT play WoW, and we need a game.
Sat Nov 29 2008 5:03PM Report@ Wharmaster
Yes, yes indeed.
Sat Nov 29 2008 5:14PM ReportHeres a thought or two.. I don't think that WoW persay has come up with anything innovative.. they just have placed it out there smoothly..
they have an engine that isnt driven as hard as some of these so called (WoW clones)
there is sooo much of this market yet explored.. we have seen the market flooded with "fantasy games" that if they did emulate a game similar, they should do it with another theme (western, horror, apocolyptic) I think this company would have most of the market if they would make a game similar to this one as a space game (hint: Starcraft Online)
I hope companies keep trying to make games work.. as far as reaping in as many subs as Wow ? I dont think that will happen for along time... just a few thoughts
added to this Wow makes this game sorta humerous in a way.. and many try to make these games way too serious.. Kwosh
Sat Nov 29 2008 5:15PM ReportPersonally, I think we need an MMORPG where all the skill sets are based on aspects of functional literacy.
Sun Nov 30 2008 7:19AM ReportThe problem isn't a few posters on these forums (surely the anti-WoW sentiment is stronger if anything?) it's the investors who give the financial backing to new MMO's. They prefer to play it safe even though, as you quite rightly point out, time has shown us that trying to clone WoW doesn't mean you'll suceed financially.
Most 'innovative' MMO efforts don't have the financial clout behind them to realise their potential, sadly.
Sun Nov 30 2008 9:31AM ReportDeveloping AAA PC games has become extremely expensive - in the order of tens of millions of dollars. No-one's going to risk that much money without a guaranteed return, so this is why we have one WoW clone after another coming out. It's up to the Indie developers to come up with something new and innovative. Until then, the big companies will continue to spoon-feed us WoW clones for their 6.3% return to investors.
Sun Nov 30 2008 5:41PM ReportI was with you right up until you said that Tabula Rasa didn't have any innovation. Other than the fact that it borrowed the questing model from WoW, it realy didn't have anything else in common. It also had more innovative features than any other MMO I have seen.
I too thing you nailed it with point #2. We will probably see more smaller MMO's with great communities and unique niche gameplay. Unfortunately lots of people will have the same problem that me and my friends are having. No one wants to play the same game anymore.
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