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My thoughts on the MMO market and current game development.

This blog is mainly my opinions of current and future mmo's, what I think dev's are doing right and wrong.

Author: Pyrostasis

Why I miss real pvp in MMO's, and why I think we have lost the secret to fun.

Posted by Pyrostasis Saturday February 9 2008 at 10:55PM
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It’s kind of a shocker once you realize that what you think personally and your own beliefs just might be the minority. I still remember my first government class in college...we were discussing the up coming election in 2000 and I jokingly made a statement about liberals...assuming everyone else in the room agreed with me... and I still remember the shocked feeling when 90% of the room looked like they were ready to lynch me. I’m starting to feel that my thoughts on pvp in MMO’s are similar to my thoughts on politics... I might just be in the minority.

So your probably thinking what screwed up form of pvp does this psycho enjoy, and why the hell doesn’t he just shut up and play Counterstrike. Well I do play fps's... but they just don’t have the same draw. It’s not persistent, and it doesn’t give me my "Fix". It’s like handing a crack addict a cigarette to take the edge off... it just doesn’t work.

I started playing MMO's back in 1997 with Ultima Online. At the time I worked in Gamestop and was mainly a RTS gamer. Command and Conquer, Total Annihilation, and Descent 2 were my games. I was happy and content.

I had heard about Ultima Online and thought the idea was insane. Having to pay 50.00 for a game and on top of that a monthly fee? Hah what a crock. The hype was fairly good for it... but not huge. I remember trying to talk most of my customers out of buying it... the idea just didn’t seem to work for me.

Day of release we ended up with an extra copy, and I bought it just so I could shut the customers up and give them the real truth behind this obviously flawed game.

I remember patching the game and getting in for the first time... god it was laggy, horrible launch, but the few minutes I got in every time were interesting.

I spent the majority of my time chopping trees to make bows with and was just fascinated that you could do or be anything. I spent a week working my virtual butt off saving money for a house and still remember the sense of pride when I placed the house for the first time. It was mine, my virtual place in this new world.

Shortly after placing the house and showing it to my friend, a guy came up next to me with a huge axe (executioners axe) and promptly murdered me inside my own house, taking my key (and with it ownership) and all of my items.

I was devastated... the feeling of loss... the rush... My friends and I tried to kill the guy, but we were a bunch of farmers, animal tamers, bowyers, and miners. Our weapons were pitiful and he murdered us all. We finally realized the house was gone. I had lost a weeks worth of work in a few seconds, to some anonymous ahole... I wanted revenge.

My real life buddy and I made new characters. We knew who the guy was, but we didn’t know anything about him. We spent the next 2 days learning how to be "mages" and get our skill up. In our off time we spent hiding outside of trinsic near our old house waiting for him.

He left a rune outside to another house and we located his main "Merchant shop" a large forge, stuffed with loot, probably from other poor bastards like us. We really wanted this guy. We managed to meet a friend of his in the same guild and pretended like we wanted to join. After a few pvp outings to cut our teeth we were accepted into the band of murderers.

We didn’t like killing people... but we had to get close to the guy. Over a period of 2 weeks we got closer to the guy, learning his hang outs, his main house, and what he did for fun. We hunted with him, and chatted with him in ICQ. We were helping him move some regs from his merchant house to his main house when he opened a chest from a looted body that killed him. He instantly died. I remember clicking on his corpse and seeing the key and the rune for his house.

We had less than a minute. I ICQed my buddy who recalled to his house with 5 copper keys. We quickly made a copy of the key, and my friend recalled to his house seconds before he came onto the screen freshly rezed.

I pretended to be guarding his corpse, and laughed with him about how close that had been. He thanked me for not ripping him off. Mean while my friend was hidden outside his house, with a copy of his key. 2 hours later "Akari sucks" logged off for the evening, and my friend and  I went to get our revenge.

I remember when we first walked into the house thinking it looked like Wal-Mart... I had never seen so much loot. It took us almost 4 hours to clean the house from top to bottom as it was a large forge. We then took copies of his key and runes marked for his house and deposited them out side of the vesper, britain, minoc, and trinsic banks.

We had finally gotten our revenge on the bastard.

He logged on the next day and I still remember him screaming in ICQ that he had lost everything. I sent him a smiley face, explained who we were, why we did what we did, and that we were even. He was quiet for a good 10 minutes, finally responded with "Nicely done dude, nicely done"

Over time and a few guild wars later we ended up becoming friends with the guy and our tale of vengeance became part of our guild legends.

The problem with games now a days... is there is little if any player driven content. The story I just told you was an in game adventure that my friend and I spent the better part of a month doing. It required no development, no extensive play testing, no level requirements, and no quest to enter... it was a simple game of cops and robbers, good guys and bad guys.

That’s more or less what MMO's are missing now days. Evil people to hate and good people to admire. Games like UO had their evil elements... the evil pks who killed everyone, and people you knew if you saw you had seconds to escape or perish... and then it had its valiant police force of anti pks who would respond to any attack.

These clashes were what made the game great and what made it worth logging into. It wasn’t about slaying the dragon that you have never heard of who ticked off the mayor of your town... it was about getting back at the bastard who killed you while you were working hard, who deserved every slice of your blade and burning of your spells.

Did losing items to him stink? Oh man... it sure did, it pissed me off to no end... but getting vengeance, finally finding him and taking back what was mine and more, it was probably one of the biggest mmo moments I ever had and almost a decade later still sits with me.

I believe this mechanic is the main thing missing from MMO's now a days. Few people work together... because there is no need. There are no roving bands of bandits lurking outside the cities. The excitement has died down as all of the encounters are scripted, predictable, and repetitious... I miss the days of old.

What pvp we do get is pointless... killing for no reason, no drive, and is all about points and gear. Instant respawns, instanced battlegrounds, meaningless battles on meaningless battlefields and for what? I talk to people playing WoW and ask what their most memorable pvp event is... most just stare back at me confused about the question, or respond with a "We rolled this pug with a premade".

Maybe there is something wrong with me... but it just doesn’t seem right, it’s missing something, something that made it real, a purpose.

Am I alone in this?

 

phlame writes:

nah, your not alone, i playe UO for a while and i remember gettin ganked while fighting the elementals, the best games of pvp i have ever played would have been DAOC and Shadowbane, daoc because  i believe they were the first ones to come up  with positionals and realm abilites and shadowbane just for the complete satisfaction of killinmg a guy and taking the 600k he happened to be carrying

Sat Feb 09 2008 11:36PM Report
Scizyr writes:

I agree with you, it seems like UO was the most innovative mmorpg and everything after it has been a step backwards in the evolution of the genre.  Games are supposed to get deeper and more complex as the years go by, instead we get half completed games because all the development has gone into the graphics engine. 

mmorpg's now have too many rules.  No killing in town, no killing the same faction, no looting corpses, no learning skills outside your "class."

You are not alone, but yes I think pvpers are a minority. Just keep being vocal about your opinions.  We hardcore pvpers are much better at getting our points across, because we possess rational thought.  Carebears(much like liberals) are politically correct and don't know how to argue because they are afraid of hurting someone's feelings with words. They don't understand that in FFA PVP they will have other players come to their aid when they are being griefed.  It is a completely alien concept to them. You can try to explain it, but they will just stare at you like a dog that has just been showed a card trick.

I'll probably be banned now for flaming, or my comment will be deleted... Such is the pvp life.

Sun Feb 10 2008 12:24AM Report
Dameonk writes:

Pyrostasis... it's like you took the thoughts right out of my head.

I was on Baja and we had a big PK guild named M&D (Murder & Death).  I was an anti-pker.  My friends and I would make daily runs against the M&D headquarters killing any reds we could, camping their houses for hours, generally making their lives as hard as possible.  It was terrific fun. 

Then I met a girl in one of my classes that also played on Baja.  I thought that's really strange, so we started talking about the game and found we had a lot in common.  We started playing together & eventually had a very long relationship. 

She liked to do things in game like socialize with our guildmates, make potions, she even had a reg vendor just for our guild that she stocked multiple times a day because she enjoyed that very much.  She didn't have to spend hours killing monsters or questing for loot to do what she loved.  Also she never PvPed.  Ever. 

Anyway.  About 6 months after we started going out I find out that her childhood friends were the founders of M&D.  No kidding.  These bastards we had been warring with for years were my girlfriend's best friends.  We met and such, we had a big laugh about the whole thing, but the next day we were at each other's throats but instead of just throwing random insults we would call each other out by name.  It was a lot of fun.  Then we'd meet to play some playstation on the weekend.

Who can say that they've had an experience like that in any other game....

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:08AM Report
vajuras writes:

Man its a shame there is no way for people nowadays to experience something remotely close to this. This story is so alien to most new players they have no idea what "meaningful pvp" is. It really sucks man I hope a good sandbox MMO comes out soon

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:16AM Report
ruvoka writes:

It really does seem like people who started their MMORPG career's on UO are cut from a different cloth.  I loved the PK and Anti-PK element, I loved that I could do whatever I wanted to!  I remember when I first started I wanted to use poisons with my weapons, so I used to poison bread and leave it by the bank.  People would eat it and get poisoned, me and my friends thought it was hilarious.  No one would ever die from a lesser poison potion but it was fun none the less.  Also, going to a "spawn" like the ratmen camps and hunting for an hour with your hand on the recall spell just in case you see that red name pop up.  No game since has made me feel anything.  You kill x mob, loot it with virtually any type of fear or danger.  I play current MMORPGs in a dream state because they do not require any skill or in many cases for you to even be paying close attention.  Sorry for the rant but UO is and from the way things are going seems to be the pinnacle of MMORPGs (AC Darktide was fun too but I heard about it kind of late).

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:46AM Report
Guitano writes:

Alot of people miss classic UO, like me. I admit that I was evil as hell back in the day and did nasty things to players, such as house stealing. I was not stupid in losing my stuff though. Me and my small guild  at the time made hell for alot of players on our dungeon PK runs.  Alot of people camped my house wanting the reward $$$ for my head of the head of one of my friends. We would just open teh door and kill them. Boat stealing was fun also, hide, they open the plank and you hop on,  kill owner and loot. Many players on todays UO have no clue on how evil you could be and the rotten things you could do.

It was not like classic UO was all evil, there was MANY anti PK guilds. I also miss the chaos and order street brawls... Bah... I could go on for days of fun stories about classic UO.  IMO, todays UO is for girls... really.

Sun Feb 10 2008 2:14AM Report
Tmac47 writes:

That's the greatest story I've ever heard! I totally agree with you.

Sun Feb 10 2008 2:33AM Report
Tmac47 writes:

I'd love to hear more stories!  The problem with today's MMOs is tied directly to risk v reward.  In todays games the reward always outweighs the risk.  In any MMO you play today, death is a mere inconvenience.  The thought of dying doesn't make your hands sweat or your heart to pound, no, it just makes you dread the run back to your corpse.  The reward is less meaningful, because there's no risk.  The reason UO was so much fun is because every battle was decisive, every right meaningful, every moment was full of hand sweating, heart pounding action.  This wasn't action the developers put into the game, no, it was all player driven.  I'm probably one of the youngest of UOs veterans (I started playing when I was in 8th grade) and I'm still thirsting for another MMO that brought the same thrill.  I've played almost every major MMO released in America and have always been let down.  The only reason I played WoW was because there was literally nothing else out there, and I regret every second I played.  I've never regretted playing UO.  If they released an exact replica of the original UO with modern graphics in a 3D environment, I'd start playing immediately!

Sun Feb 10 2008 2:43AM Report
Adam1902 writes:

Wow...

I completely agree with you. The developers  interfere way too much with PvP nowadays. I loved the days where you had your group of friends, always looking behind your backs.

 

IMO, it's gonna stay this way for a long time. Until DarkFall that is. I suggest you guys do some research on that game. It's gonna be totally player-driven. Like a UO, with more better features, and moders graphics. Seriously, the devs have been working on it for ages. Check it out.

Sun Feb 10 2008 4:47AM Report
Flerondin writes:

Dude, awesome story!

And I agree with you...

today's MMOs lack of these moments of good adventure

Sun Feb 10 2008 6:49AM Report
Mikey_205 writes:

Isnt Eve Online the sort of game you're talking about. For a start when you blow up someones ship you can loot it and they do lose everything on it. Sure theres a npc police force to provide consequences in high sec but if you blow someone up whos carrying rare enough stuff you make profit. Also if you declare war on a corp you can kill their members freely. But low sec is lawless pirate corps go around killing people there are anti piracy groups, mercenaries, huge alliances which vie for power. Lots of scams where people have infiltrated corporations become best friends with the person in charge and stolen billions worth of money. From my time playing you build up a lot of loyalty to people in your corporation rushing to their aid from however far away you are.

Sun Feb 10 2008 7:30AM Report
BadSpock writes:

It truly was a different age...

Yeah it was frustrating as hell at times, but it was also so awesome it was unexplainable. Siege Perilous was an absolute riot.

One thing I have realized, somewhat recently, is that any MMORPG can have these kinds of moments, it's just all about the people you play with.

Sun Feb 10 2008 7:33AM Report
Guitano writes:

Pyrostasis did a good job gaining revenge, you cant do that anymore in mmo's. I hope that Darkfall Online offers what classic UO was, if it gets released.

Sun Feb 10 2008 9:16AM Report
Darkane writes:

Fantastic blog. This is the kind of feedback that current developers need to return the genre to what it used to be. Somewhere there is a developer out there that wants to make a true open world mmo (like Eve and UO) and they just need the support of the community to show publishers that we aren't the minority.

Sun Feb 10 2008 9:40AM Report
magdain writes:

Can't think of much to add at the moment, but here's my support. I certainly agree with your thoughts on the subject. Great write-up.

Sun Feb 10 2008 10:06AM Report
Litchfield writes:

Great read.

Sun Feb 10 2008 10:56AM Report
0zkar writes:

Anti-PK's, or PKK's, don't have a place in MMO's anymore. I blame both the community and media surrounding Everquest for the Fisher-Price MMO's we have today. EQ took the experience in Ultima to a much more addicting level. People couldn't handle it, hence the suicides and bad press EQ (thus the MMO industry) started to receive. Everything released after that has been an attempt to show the world (or perhaps just America) that MMO's are as innocent as console games, only with more people. That hand-holding was needed then, but it's over now. So yes, it's time to get back to true PvP and player driven content. Great article.

Sun Feb 10 2008 12:04PM Report
hanshotfirst writes:

This might come as a shock, but some people don't want to log into a video game (particularly if it has a monthly fee), just to provide YOU with content at THEIR expense.

Crazy as it may sound, some folks prefer multiplayer games for the opportunity to cooperate with others — not to compete.

The 'secret' to fun is that it's subjective.

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:19PM Report
Pyrostasis writes:

I understand hanshot, but you do realize you can co-operate against the bad guys right? Im also providing content to you at my expense.

As for competition, I understand some folks dont like it, and to each his own. I personally just found this play style with the interaction from good and bad and being held accountable for your actions to be enjoyable.

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:24PM Report
hanshotfirst writes:

Try EvE Online?

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:30PM Report
Pyrostasis writes:

I have played eve off and on for a few years, and probably will be adding a few posts about it.... just so far have had a hard time getting into it.

Mainly due to lack of finding a good corp and the extensive learning curve.

Eve has about 90% of what Im looking for though.

Sun Feb 10 2008 1:38PM Report
mukin writes:

[Pyro, your post was good enough that it made me create an account on MMORPG.com!]

I agree, PVP in MMOs today is sorely lacking.  After THOUSANDS of Warcraft battlegrounds, I felt so unfulfilled I went back to DAoC for a few months (and I may do so again).  I even considered returning to Shadowbane!  Both have PVP elements that I haven't seen repeated, either exactly or in principle, in ANY MMORGP since.  Sighhhhhhhhhhh...

So, this is one PVPer that is crossing his fingers for AOC and/or WarHammer.  PLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEZ let the PVP have some impact on the world at large.  Please let it not suck.

 

 

Sun Feb 10 2008 2:10PM Report
vajuras writes:

heerboya wrote-

"Yeah it was frustrating as hell at times, but it was also so awesome it was unexplainable. Siege Perilous was an absolute riot.

  • One thing I have realized, somewhat recently, is that any MMORPG can have these kinds of moments, it's just all about the people you play with."

    This article I thought was discussing Classic UO- not Trammel or Siege Perilous. That's post-Age of Shadows man.

    Anyway no, you cant recreate that experience in World of Warcraft, LOTRO, City of Heroes, etc. Just no. You cant own a house in the middle of a seamless world in WoW? You cant lose a house in WoW? You cant lose anything in WoW

    Maybe you can get some fun comaradarie but joining a guild and making them PAY for what they took from you? Hell no bro. Only EVE has some of these aspects and some others. But its a small minority of games (AC1, Classic UO, EVE).

    ONly EVE comes -close- to this story. Guilds have been infiltrated and lost a fortune in ISK!

  • Sun Feb 10 2008 2:15PM Report
    mukin writes:

    Ah, I forgot to mention in my previous comment...

    Sick of WoW PVP, I tried Eve Online as well.  That one DOES have something to it PVP-wise...but I hit two-issues that, combined, really turned me off.  First, the startup curve was high.  To get enough $ to buy a ship of any real usefulenss/durability, then find a guild (and get to their home system), and get past the newbie skills/levels/systems alone (because everyone else did them years ago), took PATIENCE.  That would be OK if that's all I saw.  But second, and it may just be me, the game's responsiveness wasn't 'crisp' enough to support PVP in my humble opinion.  I'd get major lag while alone against 3 NPCs...then find myself instantly dead.  Imagine what 100+ player PVP was like!  (That's the hazard of a single server, I guess.)

    But Eve did have it's qualities, I will admit.

    Sun Feb 10 2008 2:19PM Report
    Davod writes:

    That was one of the best read's and I second to your oppinion anyday.

    Best regards, Davoud

    Sun Feb 10 2008 4:17PM Report
    icemanXxX writes:

    I agree...all MMos should be just like real life...any second you could be murdered.The same thing happened to me in U.O.(except I didnt lose my house just all the contents).Luckily I had a toon logged in at the house and was able to ban him.Didint realize which toon i had at the house untill all my stuff was gone....And that drive inside you that wants revenge,that pounding of the heart and your hands are shaking and your all sweaty...damn what a rush it was..when you and some buds confronted him and killed him just to get some loot back(with a hell-of alot of satisfaction)...Please bring back that type of PVP....free for all...winner take all...I know it would be a hit..ya I played EVE(i`m not into space games)....Murder for hire?ANYONE? :)

    Sun Feb 10 2008 4:25PM Report
    UnSub writes:

    To be a lone voice of dissent here: while Pyrostasis took the loss of his house to cyberstalk the culprit and get payback, lots of other people just quit at that point when they lost property that took them weeks to get. And lots of players quit UO as a result of PKing.

    I agree with Lum about UO - it was what it was because it was the only online world of note at the time. It attracted a lot of attention and players of all stripes signed up and gave it a shot. This put the sheep and the wolves together on the same map, but it turns out that the sheep don't like being slaughtered to amuse the wolves so they quit.  The fact that there are more sheep than wolves makes such behaviour extremely undesirable for devs, so they do what they need to to arrest the slide, which is to take out the PvP situations that have been described above.

    There are MMOs out there that allow for some of these PvP experiences to develop (EVE Online was mentioned, Shadowbane allows some similar things) but it turns out that most players like to choose what level of risk they face and that lots and lots of players prefer to only PvP occasionally (if at all) instead of having to be on their guard whenever they log in.

    Sun Feb 10 2008 8:43PM Report
    Pyrostasis writes:
    • I can see your point unsub, however, I think if you make your "stuff" be easy to obtain and down played effectiveness then losing it isnt quite so painful.

      UO wasnt bad as you didnt have Tier six armor to lose, or the wand of uber death dealing. You had a simple mace or axe etc.

      That is one of my issues with Eve, you spend 60 - 80 % of your time pveing to afford your pvp.

      In the beginning of UO I could spend about an hour pveing and die several times over losing everything and be fine.

      I think if houses had been done a bit better, and the banking stayed the same with maybe larger space... the game could still be popular even today.

      Granted... sheep dont like being killed, but Im a firm believer with out bad guys there are no good guys. But thats just my 2 cents.

    Sun Feb 10 2008 8:59PM Report
    ruvoka writes:

    Epic Loot killed the MMO Star.  In UO your gear was crap and losing it meant nothing, but the addition of gear with insane "stats" ruined the whole thing.  My suggestion to fix this would be to make items drop MUCH more easily and plentifully (lowering the value drastically) THEN make everything drop on death!  You still dont want to lose your gear?  Then play more CAREFULLY!  Im tired of people playing semi afk with no threat or danger.  God I should have gone to FullSail instead of UCLA.

    Sun Feb 10 2008 10:56PM Report
    Pyrostasis writes:

    Thought about going to fullsail myself... just so damned expensive

    Sun Feb 10 2008 11:14PM Report
    Waddy writes:

    Pyrostasis is my brother, but to throw my own 2 cents into the mix here I'll post here.

    I have to agree with him on most of what he's said because it's just flat out true. However, something that we haven't taken into consideration here is that UO is now 10 years old and as something matures it's always going to be changing like MMO's.

    Unfortunately, MMO's like UO and Asheron's Call1 did not appeal to the masses like Everquest1-2 and WoW have. The reason is pretty close to what UnSub said, basically people who can't or don't want to try to compete wont, they want a simple game of smash and grab.

    Basically, what I'm trying to get at is that if UO were to release today I don't think enough people would play it to keep it afloat because the vast majority want Everquest and WoW... Not only that, but the people who did play it would all be " wolves " as UnSub described and it would turn into present day DAoC. Day one people would be running around as tank mages, people who know exactly what worked and didn't and it would soon turn into a game of group v group.


    What I mean by that is that games over the years have progressed to the fastest, simplest way to get from Point A to Point B and once they get you to Point B the idea is to hook you on really hard to get gear so that you will continue playing. That or in pvp games like Daoc it's now you have to have the right class, with the right gear or the right group and they all have to be perfect or you can't even compete and the game has just lost it's savor.

    Not trying to start an argument but it's kind of like War, we created the nuke and now we're remenissing(sp) over the days where men did it with swords and shields, even though that stuff was epic and wonderful it would be completely uneffective today 8 (

     

    Mon Feb 11 2008 3:12AM Report
    TheRPGPope writes:

    Simply is most companies are scared to make another sandbox games, you had UO, SWG, and Eve Online.. UO is as old as time, SWG well they gave up on the sandboxness and made it a standard level based MMO, and Eve Online is just growing.  And just like your stroy you can pull off just about the same things on Eve.  But you have to want to be in a spaceship, and have some frustrating combat that can be slow and lots of waiting! lol  But your not the only one out there, I am waiting for a game again with the sandbox nature to pvp and game play, be who you want, and do what you want...  It has to be a skill based game to pull it off, simply said.  But loved the story man!

    Mon Feb 11 2008 3:10PM Report
    Boanerges writes:

    I had actually quit playing MMO's (cause I missed MMORPGs) and haven't done much with this site in a long time until I read your post. 

    Thank you...

    I too miss the games of old, having played AC1 with my friends for years.  Buying my first house and knowing how it was in that world, was one of the coolest experiences in my gaming history.

    Not to mention exactly what you said about 'creating' the adventure.  No development needed.

    Fri Feb 15 2008 8:23PM Report
    lemongreen writes:

    I have the same MMO experience as you do, started with UO than AC, its true that good old PvP is long gone and pinkie lossless PvP was implanted in modern MMO. Sadly I believe we are now a minority remembering the old days simply because back then MMO were rare and unknown.

    To please the masses the original essence of MMO is gone. Even a game like Subspace released before UO had more gameplay then today`s WoW. 

    Also MMORPG were designed for adult, when game card where non existent and Credit Card payment over the internet risky and scary, we were playing among adult, who`s lost in PvP were understood and fought back with revenge not cries.

    What kill the old school MMOs is the customers themself, younger less mature. There isn`t much we can do about it and I dont blame the gaming industry. It`s basic economy, when those kids in WoW will grow up then we might see another sucessfull old school based MMORPG.

    Sun Feb 17 2008 11:06AM Report
    bmoscato writes:

    OMG I miss the good old days on UO/Catskills.  I remember being PK’d so many times when I first started playing right outside of Trinsic and Moonglow that I ended up changing to the dark side.  I would sometimes kill people or heal the mob they were fighting until it killed them just for the fun of it.  I don’t know how many times I’d stand in Deceit with my casted Daemon and a pet that I charmed (usually a dragon).   I would cast invisibility on them and wait for people to attack me; because I was perma-red most people would see me and run, but without fail within a few minutes there would be hunting parties in the dungeon looking for me.   It usually never turned out good for them!  =)

    I also had a tinker that I would make trapped boxes with and I would place them around the banks in different cities with an alt.   Watching the explosion, seeing the body on the ground and then seeing the guy run back with the grey robe was always a lot of fun.  I also liked waiting for a noob to click on the body and become flagged and have the guards insta-kill them.

    There will never be another game with the dynamic of UO.

    Thu Feb 21 2008 11:48AM Report
    Liche writes:

    I think the problem that we are seeing with the current state of the MMO have alot to do with the peoples ideals, we have been turned into a society of domisticated animals, there is no hunt there is no protection. We watch the news from day to day seeing horrible unbelievable things going on all around us next door a town or 2 over. But thats it there is no real experiance of this act. We are told  what is going on we are told how to act, what is acceptable and what is not. People sue over stupid acts to get something for nothing, and again no fear of reprisal. These aspects of the American Culture is what have breed the current state of MMO's.

    People in WoW are devistated if they log on and find their account hacked their possisions missing or charecter deleted. They have no fear of loss. Like was stated earlier. they die they res and keep going. No i've always want to see a true sand box game like UO be reborn, yet with every new MMO i am let down. I believe what I, and most the people on this thread are looking for is out their right now, it just hasn't been turned over to the masses.

    I have a question to pose. Have you played Fallout? Fallout 2? As i have discussed with my friends from my UO days many times that is what we need in a MMO. Something that immulates real life in a time past when things where a lot more exciting. The wild west or how the world would be after a nuclear war. Most people in todays society would not survive in that world, because as you say they are sheep! We want to live in this world because we can feel that there is something missing in our lives, something we see in generations past. and that games like UO recreate. So to all you programmers out their reading this thread! Stop thinking about the $$$ and start thinking about how you can create something that will be talked about for years to come. AS you see here UO is still talked about almost 14 years later and it's not talked about in the preasent but that past, that should show you something!

    Wed Jan 28 2009 4:36AM Report
    Parablood writes:

    Great article. Been fighting gaming companies on this for years. Trouble is not many old guys like us around anymore these days... guys who started in 96 UO beta and were around for the wars in Asheron's Call DT etc... The younger generations of WoW carebears and now Warham Carebears who play pretend pvp in a dev controlled safe zoned McDonald's playground type world. A world with absolutely no death penalties. These guys have no clue to what real pvp is and they have no idea what its like to get in a heart pounding pvp fight with literally everything you've built up for months sometimes years on the line. To them pk's are just griefers people who ruin their guild weddings and cybor sex episodes. Thankfully one company has gone against the tide for us to give us a mans game. A game with no limits, no boundaries a game where anything goes and everything is on the line. I predict this game will revolutionize the MMORPG/FPS industry because it is BOTH. That is... if you aren't in beta already you know this. Thank goodness for Darkfall Online. Happy days coming boys get ready for the game of our lives!

    - Blood

    Mon Feb 09 2009 1:30PM Report
    Manifold writes:

    The biggest problem with modern MMO's is that there are ust too damn many of them. In UO days you either player UO or you did something else and the pickings were pretty slim. Nowadays the first time someone kills you, you quit and go play something else. The system slowly kills itself because the competition offers bigger swords, pretty mounts, and you never have to worry about losing anything ever. In fact you never have to worry at all, no stress, no hardship, no conflict.  it's a sickening Utopia worse than George Orwell could ever imagine. Darkfall is in the hands of idiots, MO i fear has a similar fate. "Hardcore" games are too unpredictable for major companys to pick up. However, if MO is more successful than DFO, maybe some medium sized company will take a stab at those of us that enjoy true conflict.

    Fri Nov 27 2009 10:59AM Report
    Fugisawa writes:

    I am as described here a Care Bear having most of my MMORPG experience from wow but i am not proud of this. The greatest moment in Wow pvp would be getting that big crit that owned some other palying or taking on 2+ players and living. This PvP does not have the edge that i am looking for and by the pvp you describe of games such as UO seems to be what i am looking for thank you i will check out Dark Fall. I am writing this to say that you are not alone in wanting a game such as UO and that Care Bears will support a game such as this.. Thank you

    Wed Jan 13 2010 2:10AM Report
    Fugisawa writes:

    I would just like to add that although i refered to my self as a care bear this does not mean that i am 12 years of age and cry over everylittle peice of gear i do not get ect. also i did not write this at 8:10 am this last fact isnt relevant i would just like to add it in. also palying was susspose to be *player*

    Wed Jan 13 2010 2:53AM Report
    SunXnuS writes:

    All I did for the 5 years playing UO was selling regs near Vesper's bank, cornering the regs market in every cities of the shard.  I connected and created the biggest merchants network and became the perfer merchant for both order and chaos guilds.  I walked the land of Sosaria without anyone dare to touch me.  It was great fun that everywhere you walk, player waved at you knowing you are untouchable.  I had a lot of fun.

    Vas Flam to you all!

    Fri Sep 09 2011 11:38AM Report

    MMORPG.com writes:
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