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Paragus Rants

Rants, reviews, and interviews from an MMO veteran and guild leader.

Author: Paragus1

Why Darkfall is Important

Posted by Paragus1 Monday December 8 2008 at 9:16AM
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Why Darkfall is Important

Darkfall is on the verge of becoming a reality. Shockwaves were sent through the MMO community on Friday as Tasos Flambouras announced that Darkfall will be releasing in European markets on January 22, 2009. This announcement was followed by the deafening silence of "vapor trolls" who were once over-spoken forum activists convinced the game would never see the light of day. Not only is Darkfall coming out, but it is only 6 weeks from going live.



Every MMO player who loves this genre even a sliver as much as I do has a vested interested in seeing Darkfall become a success. If you have been playing MMOs for any length of time, you are no doubt feeling somewhat disenchanted with the state of the genre over the last few years, especially if you are a veteran like me who remembers the way things used to be. You might remember a time where a new MMO didn't look exactly like the one before it, a time when innovation was profitable to a developer.



The Death of Innovation

It is easy to figure out how and when innovation died. A certain company made an MMO some years ago that made unimaginable amounts of money by using a model that dumbed down the game to appeal to a wider audience. MMOs are expensive and risky business propositions, and in the last few years we have seen 40-80 million dollar debacles that have brought their developers to their knees or out of business. The safest route for profit is to look at the industries most profitable game, and build the same dumbed down model for mass appeal they used. The profit being rewarded to the companies who follow in the footsteps, combined with the innovative games being debacles, has sent a dangerous message to new developers and helped fuel a trend of linear copycat theme-park MMOs.



Sandbox games have traditionally offered their players freedom, something that most of the more recent games have been lacking and some newer-school players may have never experienced. The freedom is yours to go anywhere without being boxed in by mountains that always seem to mysteriously bottleneck into a loading screen. The freedom is yours to pick a character that is yours to shape, instead of being pigeon-holed into some specific role where for some reason can figure out how to use a single type of weapon. These are the promises that a sandbox game makes, but unfortunately there has not been a successful one made since Asheron’s Call.



Ending the Cycle

Whether you believe that Tasos will deliver what he has been promising us for years or not, before you jump on bashing bandwagon, stop and think about how a successful Darkfall will affect the MMORPG genre. If a sandbox game like Darkfall is financially successful, it will send a message to developers that not only is there a market for sandbox MMOs, but there is money to be made in innovation. Think back and imagine what this genre would look like today if Asheron’s Call and Everquest 1 had switched places in terms of who came out on top financially. If any of the sandbox games from then until now had done well, I don’t think we would find ourselves in a market full of copycat games.



When was the last time you played an MMO where the death penalty really made you fearful of dying? When was the last time you could explore in an MMO without hitting an artificial wall of mountains, or you actually were completely lost? These are the type of things that have long been gone from the genre. Now most of developers making the big name MMOs don’t even have enough innovation to make their own world. Is anyone else as sick as I am of watching these stupid prepackaged MMOs come out that are based on some old franchise? Star Wars, Dungeons and Dragons, The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Conan, and Warhammer are all games you are supposed to be excited about, and I feel like these devs are the same guys who used to play Dungeons and Dragons and buy those little premade box adventures because they didn’t have the originality to come up with their own.

Darkfall deserves your best wishes, even if you don’t plan on buying it. It is a vessel of hope to try to stop the madness that has turned what was once the best genre in all of video gaming and reduced it to an experience that is akin to sitting on a ride in Disneyland. You get in, you sit down, you go the one way there is to go, you watch the dolls dance, then you get up and exit with probably a lower IQ than you had before you got on. If you're on the fence about buying Darkfall, think about the money you spent on MMO ideas far worse than this one. I think it is worth the chance to finally show support for someone who is willing to take the big risk, and show other developers that we are willing to pay for something that is original.


I know some of you will flame me and try to brand me a fanboi, and I would argue that I am a fanboi of the genre and what it should represent. I also know that for a lot of you reading, Darkfall is your last stand in MMOs. I can’t blame you for going all-in on this game after all that has happened.  If you have read my words here and agree with me, I ask that you make sure you tell a friend and pass the word along; we are going to need it now more than ever.

 

Paragus

Co-Leader of Inquisition

www.inqguild.com
 

Zayne3145 writes:

Nice blog.

As a skeptic I am keeping a very open mind about DF but am intruiged by its gameplay. Having never played a FFA sandbox PvP game before, I'm relishing the chance to give it a try.

If Aventurine deliver 90% of what they're promising, it will be nothing short of a gaming revolution. There are a LOT of people out there who are simply desperate for not only something new, but something ELSE. I'm not in this situation at all, but will definitely be giving it a shot.

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:26AM Report
Korrowan writes:

I disagree wtih much of what you have to say.  Many of us adults who have to work do not want to be lost for 2 hours of our 4 hour play slot.  One of the biggest issues is that many of us who grew up with these games do not have the time to put into that genre anymore and that is why it is doomed to fail.  My friends and I have been playing MMOs since 1999 and now that we are out of college and have wives... screw sitting around for  8-10 hours a day waiting for a mob pop or trying to find a zone on a wall of trees that if you did not know it was there you would only find it by accident. 

Games like Warhammer give us the oppurtunity to actually do something with our time or WoW I guess even though I disliked the game.  

 

In EQ the death penalty was REALLY stiff... I mean you lost hours of work if you died.. not everyone has time for that and in HS and college I would have welcomed it... but in reality (not that time when everything is gift wrapped and handed to you) the time for that style of game does not exist for many of us.

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:40AM Report
xbellx777 writes:

i agree with what your saying and its a nice post but there is a reason why the themepark games have made so much money lately.  like korrowan said it comes down to time.  while i am going to play darkfall i wont be able to play as much as i want, as a result from college, work, friends, girlfriend.  these other games were made so people with busy lives can jump in, play an hour, and get something accomplished.  videogames are more targeted towards adults now with very busy lives than kids with no license (not saying your one of them). i think there is room for both types to be on the market and there should be.  ill play both

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:46AM Report
birken writes:

@ Korrowan

 That is one of the reason the mmo rpg games are failing not becasue u dont want to spend time with a game, Games are hobbies and most people spend there off time doing these if u found other hobbies well good for u but there are still alot of use out there that want to enjoy are hobbie again.  If u want to play a so so game and dont have time buy a ps3 or xbox 360 . Anyway  i really hope Darkfall bring use back to the good old days. Iam going to give it a try.  

             

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:56AM Report
Paragus1 writes:

Korrowan, I completely understand where you are coming from.  But with all due respect, there are many games out there that target you as someone who is not willnig to spend a lot of time.   Darkfall is not a threat to you.  Don't you think other types of players deserve a game that is not a carbon copy of another game, just in a different franchise? 

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:57AM Report
birken writes:

@ xbellz776

You say there target toward adult but it funny how you are  missing the point. RPG MMO are FAILING....

Mon Dec 08 2008 10:00AM Report
Thestache writes:

I am also looking forward to DF, but am waiting to see. I have jumped on AoC, LoTRO, WAR and countless others hoping for something different than WoW(which I currently play and enjoy) and none of them have really delivered any long term play or anything different.

 

Sincerely

Waiting in anticipation

Mon Dec 08 2008 10:09AM Report
Mortal1x writes:

If you feel you need to be catered to jsut because you have a life you dont need to be playing MMOs. Period. There are more people in this world then you, or others like you. I, myself, have a job and a bit of a life so i cant play like i want, but i dont want a game to change just cause i cant play it 10 hours a day. Ill play it when i can.

I am going to get Darkfall because the first game i started with was SWG before the jedi crap. So i would like to see what a sandbox MMO is like, even with the FFA PvP Full Looting.

Games like WoW ruined any chances, or nearly any, for MMOs to become great. All that they created are games that become a PvE grind fest for the best gear possible and a big e-peen stand off.

I have lurked this site for a while, and i know the massive amount of elitism on it, so im sure i jsut bent a few e-egos, but tough shit. Flame away if you need to feel justified on the net.

Mon Dec 08 2008 10:14AM Report
banthis writes:

Darkfall's not even on my list of give it a shot or wait for trial list.  FFA PvP games have turned me off since the days of UO Pre Trammel.  Thats just me personally.   Regardless of my personal preference though I am an MMO genre fan and as of late its been disappointing to say the least.   

AoC needed to succeed to help push developers away from the WoW model and failed.  WAR needed to succeed to help push developers away from the standard PvE raid model and while it did't fully fail its not fully succeeded.

Darkfall needs to succeed even if its moderate at best in order to show developers and publishers that sandbox models for games are not dead or commercial waste lands like Second Life.   It'll also get alot of the homeless whiner trolls who think any other type of game thast not sandbox is worth troll flaming incessantly something to play.

I have my fingers crossed that this game works like Tasos has been saying.  I'm really tired of disappointments and medocre successes.

Mon Dec 08 2008 10:23AM Report
imbant writes:

"Korrowan, I completely understand where you are coming from. But with all due respect, there are many games out there that target you as someone who is not willnig to spend a lot of time. Darkfall is not a threat to you. Don't you think other types of players deserve a game that is not a carbon copy of another game, just in a different franchise? "

 

Exactly.  Korrowan and others think this game is "doomed to fail" since it doesn't cater to their playstyle and interest.  In his same response he mentions that his generation of gamers dont have the time to invest to a game like this anymore.

While i would argue that it is no more of an investment than other games since the "ill lose hours of work and have to grind" is just making things up and a piss poor attitude as to why you play MMOs...it also ignores the fact that while his generation may have grown up, there is a whole new generation that can devote the "time" as well as adults who dont work the 9-5 and may be able to do it as well.

Mon Dec 08 2008 10:33AM Report
fagercraft writes:

Ah good read, very HC fanboish attitude but i understand where you are comming from. I feel like you, the mmo Genre needs a good push, something thats new and also sells :) .

WoW took the good from all games of its time, made it better and made sure alot of ppl could enjoy it.

Todays inovative games always has new stuff i say holy shiet i wish WoW had this in there game. Becouse i know if wow had taken it in theyd perfect it (dumb it down sure, but its always in a very playable state).

Sadly most innovative games of today press on so much on the parts that are new, they often bringa  subpar work on whats old in there game.

Hope that the attitude from Tasos on his game being above all else is correct, and the arrogance of little respect for haters, saying they dont need publicity stunts and so on really has a well founded reason ;)

At least ive enjoyed that attitude of the dont like it piss off and the response it makes on the forums the last weeks. Makes for good Forum Lurking :D

Mon Dec 08 2008 10:34AM Report
Splixx writes:

Ahhhh Asheron's Call in the early years, what a freakin golden time it was. My personal opinion is that the industry has gone downhill since the days of Asheron's Call, some agree some don't. I hope that DF succeeds because I am freakin selfish and crave an intense game to play, if it happens to help shift the thinking of the industry as a whole that is just gravy for me.

Mon Dec 08 2008 11:19AM Report
Koddo writes:

Eh, i'll still wait for Earthrise.

Mon Dec 08 2008 11:24AM Report
Aragon100 writes:

A very well written and important blog.

Darkfall stands for something else then the usual themepark WoW copycats we seen way to many of lately.

To me Darkfall stands for innovation from a brave game developing company. A company that have the guts to think outside the box and dont bend in their mission of completing their dreamgame.

Darkfall is important. Not only for us sandbox lovers, its important for the whole genre.
 

Mon Dec 08 2008 11:29AM Report
Kshnik writes:

I am a casual player with limited playing time due to job, wife, 4 kids, house and etc.   What excites me about certain aspects of  Darkfall is the ability to play with friends/guildmates, who have more playing time, and be able to contribute in where ever they go.   This was not possible in other games; my lower level was a determent to myself and to my guildmates in various ways. 

Mon Dec 08 2008 11:50AM Report
Cosytus writes:

As always a good read, Paragus1.

 

I knew little of this game until very recently, and up until now I was on the fence about whether to pick it up or not. Like most other MMO vets I have been very disappointed with the recent releases in the genre. Looking for the magic of old, all I've found lately are games that are broken, shallow, or tired. I will be picking this up hoping for a renewed zeal, and at the very least, voting with my wallet.

 

Keep fighting the good fight.

Mon Dec 08 2008 12:13PM Report
ericbelser writes:

So much to respond to....first off all games do not need to appeal to all gamers, this is a basic lesson many many fans need to learn. Because you like a game doesn't make it perfect for everyone, nor the reverse if you dislike it.

I completely disagree with the OP in regards to existing intellectual property. The fact that the companies doing Middle Earth, Warhammer, Conan etc have all butchered the genres and dumbed down the universes massively doesn't make the use of existing IPs a bad idea. I would be a *LOT* more interested in Darkfall if it were tied to a series of books I loved etc. There are a baziliion "generic" fantasy worlds out there and any moron can make up a new twist on the basic races...which is all DF has done.

With that said, I am very very interested in Darkfall and yet very worried. Why?

I am desperate to see an open ended "sandbox" game do well, especially since the only sandbox game out there now, EVE, has been moving decisively away from it. No dev team can make content fast enough to keep players busy...the new model HAS to be player generated content and to get it the players have to have the freedom to create it. (SWG had amazing potential in this regard before SOE stomped it into the cookie mold)

However, I am worred about FFA pvp....regardless of the fanbois there has not been a single game yet which has gotten FFA right. I love the idea, I want it to work. I want a universe with deadly assassins hiding in cities...but no one has ever gotten the consequences right in terms of a reputation/faction system and no one has gotten it right in terms of power.

I want you to be able to knife someone in the back of an alley, but when you do it in the market square of a law abiding town, you need to be hung. I want you to be able to try and kill whoever you want, but when the pack of 20 torch packing newbies chase you down, they should win. Without real consequences, the gankers will be gankers and the game will suck.

Will they get it right? We'll see.

 

 

Mon Dec 08 2008 12:17PM Report
roman2440 writes:

Theres a part of me that agrees with some of the comments made in this entry, specifically how the genre is stale and how we all want a sandbox mmo to succeed.  However I wouldn't hold Darkfall to be my standard in this, its tied to the ugliness that is FFA PvP and that will be its downturn. 

The previous poster said it right in saying that no game has gotten it right, that without real consequences the gankers will be gankers and the game will suck.  The problem is no matter how you build the system, there will be people that see all this as just a game and won't care about any system built consequences.   Oh, I die - woe is me, let me roll up the next ganker003475.    I don't believe you can in a video game build enough consequences to prevent griefers from spoiling the game for everybody else.

Look I would love to see a sandbox MMO succeed.  I highly enjoyed star wars in the early days, and I remember some of the fun of UO (outside of being ganked).   I can really appreciate how deep the gameplay can be if a lot is given over to the players to create.  But why does this have to come with FFA PvP?

Mon Dec 08 2008 12:38PM Report
Paragus1 writes:

@ Cosytus

Thanks for the feedback and being an apparent long time reader.  Voting with your wallet is the best thing you can do.   You can also try to make sure other people know about what is going on here.   There are still a lot of people who never heard of Darkfall, or have yet to hear about the release date being announced. 

I just want the bashing to stop.   The game could suck, I am not saying it will be great, but it deserves an open mind from MMO players.  If you don't like the game's premise, that's fine, and there are about a dozen games out there that play like WoW with a different wrapper.

Mon Dec 08 2008 12:43PM Report
dristanmord writes:

Great article.  I agree with most things said on the post and in the comments following.  My thoughts are this.  I have been playing MMORPG's since the inception of UO.  Because that was my first experience in the genre, I have since compared all the games I've played to that.  I loved the feelings and experiences that game created for me and I am always looking for the "next game" to bring back those good feelings.  I have since tried games like EQ,EQ2,LOTRO,DDO,AC,Guild wars,WAR,etc. I always get into these games and end up with the same conclusions.  "I like this on this game but i wish it was like that on that game."  There is no perfect MMO and I will never be able to rekindle the experience of old but I will continue to search.  To date the only game I keep returning back to after a few weeks here and a few weeks there is Vanguard.  For me, this is the best game available.  It was released with so many aspirations and I am sad that many things didnt come to pass but it is a good game none the less.  I think if Darkfall delivers on its promises it could very well be successful.  The real problem is "old" gamers like me compare everything to games like UO, EQ, or AC.  These were our first loves.  New gamers compare everything to WOW, EQ2, and AOC.  These are their first loves.  When an old school game comes out it usually takes a while for the newbies to accept the old.  I had the same feeling after playing years on UO and beta testing EQ for the first time.  In my mind i kept thinking "This aint gonna work"..."This is horrible". Little did I know I would become addicted.  It grew on me and so did many other games, but I had to give it a fair trial.  That is what I plan to do with Darkfall and I hope it becomes my next great game...and thats my 2 coppers worth.

Mon Dec 08 2008 12:59PM Report
logicbomb82 writes:

I was doubtful DF would ever come out. I loved the ideas behind it but it seemed too good to be true. Your article got me excited again about playing a MMO. Asheron's Call was the best MMORPG IMO and I look forward to getting lost in the wilderness and exploring the new lands of DF.

Mon Dec 08 2008 1:31PM Report
Trashcantoy writes:

think u are hyping up DF, no1 knows if they can deliver. its a small studio, their first game, anything can go wrong in a complex game like a mmo

Mon Dec 08 2008 1:50PM Report
Superman0X writes:

Sadly most of the features that you are bragging about got left on the cutting room floor.

Dont believe me? Check out the game for yourself...

Mon Dec 08 2008 2:47PM Report
MetaSeven writes:

When was the last time you played an MMO where the death penalty really made you fearful of dying?

Recently, in The Chronicles of Spellborn, in fear of losing my precious PeP-Rank

When was the last time you could explore in an MMO without hitting an artificial wall of mountains, or you actually were completely lost?

Aldenvault, in The Chronicles of Spellborn. It is not holding your hands. No pointers. You actually have to read text.

Now most of developers making the big name MMOs don’t even have enough innovation to make their own world. Is anyone else as sick as I am of watching these stupid prepackaged MMOs come out that are based on some old franchise?

The Chronicles of Spellborn, again. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I don't think that Darkfall will deliver. I am certain the same happens as with Dark n Light or Age of Conan. The same crowd will move on to the next hyped game and will be dissapointed again. Until they hit some age in adulthood.

Mon Dec 08 2008 3:05PM Report
Korrowan writes:

My point is this guy says Darkfall is the end all of sandbox MMORPGs and I do not agree.. you can have a good sandbox mmo that is successfull and it not being you die and lose 2 days work and oops took a wrong turn and walked off for 3 hours yay.  There are other formulas for success and to believe this is the end all be all is ignorant at best.

Mon Dec 08 2008 3:28PM Report
Korrowan writes:

Another thing to add... I bet the game would prove to be more popular if it was not FFA PvP there are indeed other ways to play games and have them be fun... FFA PvP only caters to people who can play 10 hours a day and have no wives and do not get laid.. and are unlikely in the unemployment line.

Mon Dec 08 2008 3:31PM Report
brainiak writes:

yoou forgot eve, sir. but still nice article.

Mon Dec 08 2008 3:42PM Report
Mykell writes:

Games never live up to hype or people's (unrealistic?) expectations.

DF might be a fine game but its not the second coming nor will the entire industry collapse if it fails.

Hopefully it will be at least successful enough to stay afloat and grow (much like Eve has).

I need a change of scenary and am looking to Earthrise more than DF.

Mon Dec 08 2008 3:51PM Report
Cosytus writes:

Korrowan -

I personally prefer FFA PvP as oppsed to any other kind of PvP. Hey, guess what? I work a full-time job, raise a child on my own (which is a helluva lot more work than a wife), get laid fairly often, and am still able to log 20+ hours a week into my "favorite" MMO. Just because you cant do it doesn't mean that noone can. In fact, I'd wager the opposite.

Mon Dec 08 2008 4:29PM Report
Gravarg writes:

I can't help but notice that everyone hates at least one game.  While there will always be at least one game you will not absolutely play, there are others that will.  It's been mentioned a hundred times before, and I'll say it here again.  The MMOs as of late aren't all that bad,  Age of Conan and Warhammer for instance, have gotten a bad rap from people that hate the game.  I for one like Age of Conan, but don't like Warhammer.  People, I mean kids, go on the forums and spam to anyone that will listen (and some who won't listen, thankfully) that "OMG THIS GAME SUCKS".  In all actuality, whether you like or hate a game is of personal preference.

I'm not saying I haven't ever done the above, I have.  It just seems that people pay more attention to the people that hate the game than actually make up thier own mind on whether they like a game or not.  Yes Age of Conan and Warhammer have thier flaws, and so did World of Warcraft (and still does).  Speaking of World of Warcraft, it reminds me a bit of Wal-Mart.  Everyone says they hate it, but where do you find them all the time?  Which brings me to my final thought about this issue, an old proverb.  "He who yells the loudest, is the one who is heard"  which in this case, people who go around spamming forums and whatnot about how bad a game is, will be heard more often than someone who posts once about how great a game is.

I most likely will not play Darkfall, not because I don't think it will be good or anything.  After Asheron's Call 2, I'm kind of turned off by sandbox MMOs is all.  Darkfall will neither make or break the genre, as there will always be at least 1 game that people will be playing in the genre.  Unlike some things, genres of games don't die out.  They may become smaller than the FotM genre, but as of now I can only say that the FotM taste of MMOs is wearing off is all. (or well actually instead of FotM more like Fot last 15 years hehe)

Mon Dec 08 2008 4:45PM Report
LaSenorita writes:

Personally I cant wait until this game comes out. I have my fingers crossed that I will be lucky enough to get on the beta.

As a veteran gamer who has been playing MMO's back when they were MUDS and started playing MMO's at their birth and have done so for many many years I have no issue spending time levelling, building up items not only to loose them. Games are not about having it all, they are about the the time you play and what you make of that time. One of the best games I have played (one I will be going back to if DF does not do it for me) has one of the harshest death penalties around. Eve-Online is a hard game, you make a mistake and you loose everything. And you will have to build it back up and what I feel is missing from games is exactly that. A consequence. Why does every game have to be for casual gamers? Why does every MMO now have to be set up for the PS and Xbox generation who sit down for 1 hr or 30 mins and expect to have it all, and when they dont they spend all their time in work/school or collage online bitching about it.

While I have no issue with games like WAR who allow you to log on, play for a small bit and have a great wack at things I have no doubt in my mind that there is a huge need for the old style MMO's. You die and it hurts. At the end of the day, if you die and you loose that item you spend 2 weeks trying to get, the next time you are running around with that Item you will be much more careful. Anyways, people need to get more skills :)


DF, IMHO, is going to be a game that will put everyone on a level playing field. A game that will allow players to come in and have fun for an hour or 2 a week and as long as you have some actual skill you will do well. I'm so happy that a game will be bringing back actual skill and not more button bashing.


More than anything else I hope that Darkfall lives up to its reputation.

Mon Dec 08 2008 5:31PM Report
BelegStrongbow writes:

Mortal Online shares darkfalls features, Darkfall is not the last sandbox mmo.

Mon Dec 08 2008 5:36PM Report
Paragus1 writes:

@Knifo

That is true, and Mortal has been mentioned a lot to me on the various sites I have discussions going about this article.   Assuming Darkfall releases when Tasos says, it will be on the market first.  I know there will be others, but this is the first big one to come along in a long time.

Mon Dec 08 2008 5:40PM Report
Grym writes:

UO was a good game except for the FFA PvP. I don't like having some jerk come along and gank me while I'm trying to mine, lumberjack, whatever, or minding my own business.  When you allow the possibility for another player to impose their "play style" upon other players, most gamers will leave.  The only game I've seen thrive on PvP is Guild Wars, but that is what the game was designed for. Don't promise the rest of the gaming community that they will enjoy the game regardless of FFA PvP because the gankers will see to it they don't. Good Luck!

Mon Dec 08 2008 6:12PM Report
Vistaakah writes:

[quote} If any of the sandbox games from then until now had done well, I don’t think we would find ourselves in a market full of copycat games.[/quote]

DF is a late comer therefore if it in fact emulates any prior games is it not also a copycat?

Lets establish a few things off the bat. There is no market for perma death or for losing an item that it took a person a long time to get. If you title it sandbox you can also title the game Asian grinder. People don't want grind games any more. They want new experiences and most of all FUN. The best PVP game every made *DAOC* would possibly still be strong if they hadn't made some stupid changes but never the less its still the best PVP model ever created and implemented.

Just the other day i sat there thinking, what made DAOC stand above the rest? Memories of realm enemies unleashing an attack on realm resources. The sense of urgency to defend was very exciting. People actually cared because not reacting had negative effects on every level of player. I dream of one day where a game can bring back that sort of PVP excitement.

Truth be told is times have changed and people are sick of grinding just to be competitive at PVP. I want everybody to keep there eyes out for GW2. Gulid Wars the perfect skill based system is coming out with a WAR based game.  IMO that will be the next BIG PVP MMO but its somewhere at later 2009/2010 release time frame.

Personally speaking i want a totally new gaming experience in PVP combat and to be honest i'm not sure there is enough creativity in the developer books of thought to do something totally different. Why because they are afraid of failure. WAR was a total let down coming from a very long experience with there first child DAOC.

They should of made DAOC 2.0 instead. It's sad that game has so much promise and so few subscribers left. MJ should of stuck to what he knew imo.

 

 

Mon Dec 08 2008 6:20PM Report
Kien writes:

Interesting article, thank you for it.

I'm one of those people who have been accused of being a "vapourware troll". I'm a very rational person, and given Darkfall's sordid history, it seemed like a reasonable stance to take (skepticism about the game, not trolling, of course). I stand by my earlier skepticism, as I believe it was warranted at the time.

I wish Darkfall the best of luck, and I hope when players flood into the game on Jan. 22 that they will find the game stable and all the promised features up and running.

 

Mon Dec 08 2008 6:24PM Report
tazarconan writes:

I will focus on what u said that the new gamers genre havent tested so far: freedom.

As wise Morpheus used to say: There is a diference between knowing the path and following the path.

DF's freedom will be handled diferently from player to player. The new genre of mmorpg players im not sure if and how they can handle the freedom in such a game.. My guess is ganging mostly .

Watch out kittos thoguh.. This aint  wow or war u wont beat easily a skilled individual with your 2 friends . It aint picknick. No locked targets so u can launch a fireball.. u have to aim  .

As for the older aged players im guessing they ll focusing in making strong friendships, guilds, live the freedom of a world full of adventruing that lies ahead in an indeed cruel world  simulated =]

Mon Dec 08 2008 6:57PM Report
Evasia writes:

I think Darkfall will be an awesome game and it will have succes for all hardcore who love an challenge in pve and pvp.

But as i already knew many here who replyed to OP dont agree with OP and give an opinion about what he said, while they dont know zero about darkfall, thats realy sad that they give a opinion on something they dont know nothing about:(

Mon Dec 08 2008 7:39PM Report
Seeker728 writes:

I'd certainly like to see DF succeed, mostly because right now, the best way I can put is that WoW = Taco Bell's stuffed burrito, its filling and easily found and scarfed down, leaving you feeling a bit queasy later on and wondering why you ate that crap in the first place.  While the Chipolte sytle burritos isn't being made by anyone to date anymore, and DF seems to be the one to possibly do that.  I probably won't play it, my lifestyle is too at odds with the prime time play requirement, but I still would like to see it shatter the "Follow the WoW-Cash-Cow mold" all the other Developers are slaves to.

Mon Dec 08 2008 7:45PM Report
Arioc writes:

Wow this is the most pro-darkfall post ever. How can I not brand you a fanboi? But you can't hear me, you have your hands over your ears.

Mon Dec 08 2008 8:03PM Report
Alienovrlord writes:

Let’s be honest, unknown company trying to produce complex innovative game?  The odds are against it.  But no matter what happens, Darkfall is important.

If Darkfall succeeds Developers will learn that they don’t need a proven history of making games, communicating with your community during development, lifting the NDA months before release and extensive public beta testing with thousands of players.

If Darkfall fails the MMORPG Community will learn that they should demand Developers present proof rather only offering years of hype before believing anything no matter how much players might want a game to revolutionize the genre.

Darkfall’s success will be a lesson to Developers. Darkfall’s failure will be a lesson to the MMORPG Community.
 

Mon Dec 08 2008 8:41PM Report
UnSub writes:

I look forward to revisiting this blog in two months time.

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:59PM Report
Leitor writes:

Nice article. I started with AC back in the day and UO for a while. I have played many MMORPGs since and although I have had lots of fun, there has been something missing. I am really looking forward to DFO and the FFA PvP/sandbox/player run economy/crafting that is promised. I used to play 6+ hours a day. Now I am a casual gamer with a family, profession, property and a life. A might only play 6 hours a week at times now. Darkfall boasts no levels and no classes. I could pop into Agon and adventure with friends regardless of how many hours any of us have under out belts. And sandbox....did I mention sandbox? Bring it on Aventurine!

Mon Dec 08 2008 9:59PM Report
chr1sm writes:

Decent article but I have no idea why you made no reference about UO since that is what this game is largely being molded after, not AC.  Perhaps you never played UO, in that case I don't see how you are an "expert" on this topic and MMORPG.com has allowed you to make an article about it?


Anyway, I agree with most of what you said and have been following DF for a very long time.  As for the other "adult" naysayers posting comments here.  I have a full time job and I when Darkfall comes out I will make time for it because this is the only game worth my time.  If the only time you have is to play a game like WoW then that is pretty pathetic, you might as well just play a free MMO like Guild Wars where you can enter PvP right away or just play some 360 games.  So the "adults" here don't speak for everyone.  

 

Sandbox MMORPGs are the only way to go, anything else such as WoW is for the brainless masses or noobs to MMORPGs.  Games like WoW give a bad name to the industry because it's the first MMORPG that most newbies will play and inevitably, they will EVENTUALLY come to the sad reality that they are on a never ending pointless treadmill to no where and that they've wasted countless hours of their precious life.  The rest of us experienced enough to know better already know this.

Tue Dec 09 2008 1:11AM Report
antiherozero writes:

Well written, I agree 100%, except that people won't need to worry about spending $ to try this experience, as a true free trial (not the mini-trial crap many companies pull) has been an intricate part of DFO's marketing strategy all along.

Tue Dec 09 2008 1:13AM Report
Gravarg writes:

I agree with Vistaakah, best pvp game ever was DAoC.  Pretty well balanced (Crowd-Control still urks me still, even though I no longer play hehe). As he mentioned probably the biggest reason that DAoC pvp was so great is because you actually felt you were fighting for something worthwhile.  Not some armor that you're going to lose the next time you die, or for points you can spend at a vendor to get sub-par equipments.  DAoC did it right when it came to PvP, noone else has even come close.

Tue Dec 09 2008 1:27AM Report
bigfoots writes:

Darkfall will build it's niche and be a relative success - it already has an awful lot of people following it religiously.

The only way that I can see ti failing is if too many L33t fools go around slaughtering newbies who are trying the game for the first time. Not fun for first timers at all.

So I would beg the playerbase to exercise common sense with regards to new players, and don't play the old 'IF you can't handle it play WoW' card, because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't wash!

Tue Dec 09 2008 1:29AM Report
antiherozero writes:

I am associated with two very large guilds (200+ each) who have many members excited about Darkfall Online.  I am 30 and married, my wife will also play DFO with me.  I know of literally about 70+ "adults" with families all planning to jump on DFO.  The time requirement is a lie.  No levels | char skills and weapons have very little PvP value | every item easily crafted by players.  The gear will not be the goal, and everyone who plays will have several extra sets to replace what was lost at all times safe in a bank, just like they did in UO, quite easily back then too.  Those mechanics were already used, and worked.  They went FPS-style to make sure that it was player skill driven, not character abilities driven.  The only progession to this game is what YOU want to do as a player.  It will be very easy to keep sets of gear and go find PvP.  Just read about the game, and if you haven't played UO, trust the vets who have.

Tue Dec 09 2008 1:45AM Report
Daimyo21 writes:

Agreed,  to certain criticism: DF  isnt going to be a OMG SUPER HC FFA PVP SANDBOX .

-When in reality their is no grind, endgame starts at first login, and its the mother of roleplaying because you are the mercenary, the famous crafter, the highest paid bodyguard of the most prestiges guild, the pirates that pillage and burn villages.  Endless possilities anyone?

ppl forget what the word roleplaying means.  Its not your lame proper in-game chatting of:  "How do ya do Sir Lancelot"... no its roleplaying the type of character you make, not the developers... not this ROGUE, or WARRIOR, its your own combo of whatever you choose to be.

Tue Dec 09 2008 3:02AM Report
Paragus1 writes:

@chr1sm

This is blog section, I don't need anyone's permission to make an article here.  Any jackass can come here and post whatever they want.  As the description of this blog says, I write from the perspective of a veteran, guild leader, and a lover of the genre.  Sorry if my expertise is not up to your standards.

Tue Dec 09 2008 7:45AM Report
Slovenc writes:

 mage warrior with a bit of healing put aside and some stealth :P

Tue Dec 09 2008 7:49AM Report
XBlade97 writes:

I get what your saying and I hope this game is a great success.  I won't be buying the game right away but if the reviews come in good then I will join you in this sanbox mmo.  I've spent to much money on bad MMOs and with the economy the way it is waiting will probably be the best option.  The only thing that concerns me is the Death pentalies.  I know why some people might like it but I can just see for someone like me who doesn't group when logging in for 30 mintues or so getting ganked a lot.  I don't want to be forced to group just to protect myself from the death pentaly.

Tue Dec 09 2008 9:27AM Report
NevadaJake writes:

I think the introduction of more Sanbox-type games is important to the MMO genre. Skill-based (not character class-based) games offer the player the opportunity to explore and have fun with many combinations of items and tactics. I hope we wee Darkfall soon and that it is able to attract a stable subscriber base.

Tue Dec 09 2008 10:47AM Report
Greek_Matt writes:

 Ah, the self-importance of a jaded gamer with too much time on his hands.

Darkfall is not innovation, mostly it's an attempt to dredge up an extinct style of gaming by injecting a little bit of contemporary life into it... much like trying to bring back the mammoth, or disco pants. It is only "important" for those few who actually enjoy this hugely time-consuming style of gaming, a style that has been naturally selected out of the MMO biosphere.

Flog this dead horse all you want. I'll wait for some actual innovation to enter the MMORPG genre.

Tue Dec 09 2008 11:15AM Report
Timacek writes:

nice reading, i agree. To Freedom!

Tue Dec 09 2008 12:33PM Report
Borluc writes:

Personally, I can play anywhere from 2-4 hours a day while working full time.   For me, this is plenty of time to accomplish something in a sandbox game.  Just compare that to what you do in theme park mmos.  You might go out and do some repetitive action and for what?   You haven't changed anything, you've done something everyone else is doing, and you are playing to do that for the next 40-80 lvls. 

I'd rather spend an hour more having fun than go to work a second time that day to save a little time.  A saying comes to mind when I think of this... You get out of something what you put into it. 

Tue Dec 09 2008 12:33PM Report
Greefer writes:

AMen to this.


Darkfall is going to open so make developers have to work for subscribers .. and make current subscribers of other games DEMAND MORE!!!

Tue Dec 09 2008 3:18PM Report
Xlick writes:

 XBlade97 - people keep quoting that there are harsh death penalties, however, they need to consider the rest of the game before coming to such a judgement.

You may lose all your items, but this isn't a WoW clone, it isn't item based, the devs have said repeatedly that everyone will be able to have a large stash of gear in their banks, and all you have to do after dying is grab a new bunch of stuff.

Shadowbane was open PvP just like darkfall, and to me had an almost perfect combination of ganking, and being able to level in peace, it just had multiple other flaws.

I hope DFO will fix those holes and be the game I've been waiting for.

Wed Dec 10 2008 1:02AM Report
entreri22 writes:

YEA!!

Mon Dec 22 2008 1:14AM Report
Luftwaffen writes:

I think alot ppl didnt get what your point was  this wasnt really a DF is the next big thing becouse this and that  what ppl need to understand is what he was saying was even if DF isnt your cup of tea  it will be bennficial  to the MMO genre if it susceeds becouse Devs  will start running with new ideas instead of just making wookiecutter games  wich was basicly a EQ clone

Wed Jan 07 2009 11:27AM Report
Baromen writes:

I registered here just to post on your blog.

 

I started with Gemstone III which was available for free in 95 with an AOL subscription.  Text based MUD.  When UO came out I didn't have access to a credit card (they were still a little daunting at that point in my life).  When EQ came out I knew it would devour my life, and as a college football player, I figured I didn't need the distraction so I waited until I graduated.  In 03 I set foot in Halas for the first time and would never be the same.

The sense of awe will probably never be experienced again.  These were real people around me.  This is my toon's home.  Wow.

Years went by and I ended up having my ups and downs with EQ, but in the end had a few problems that forced me away: 

1. I couldn't devote consistant time on a weekly basis to a guild in order to raid and progress my character anymore

2. As a warrior I was 100% what gear I had and my attendance.  Nothing else mattered.

3. I couldn't find the groups necessary (even with a box shammy) to grind my way to the new top level efficiently enough to make it worth my time.

4. Without being 80 with 1k AAs I was useless to the friends I used to run with unless I was an extra in the group for warrior DPS...

 

It was only a few months ago that I decided I'd jump into a new MMO if the scene was right.  I feel like Darkfall could be that right scene.  Why?

Well, I see WoW as the Halo 3 of MMOs.  Low learning curve.  Accepting of new people.  Appeals to the masses.  Low punishment for failure (note: I consider respawn based FPS games to be low punishment).  While I enjoyed Halo 3, it just wan't my scene.  With such a low learning curve there wasn't satisfaction in success.  I never felt like I really accomplished anything because I'd been playing with about the same success since I learned the maps.

On the other hand, there are FPS games like Rainbow Six (original) that had super high learning curves.  They required just as much time setting way points and figuring out HOW you were going to excecute a mission as they did actually going through and doing the mission.  The multiplayer was unforgiving and without tons of practice you weren't going to kill ANYONE let alone have a 3:1 kill/death ratio.

Which was more FUN?  Rainbow.  When I started doing well I felt like I was getting somewhere.  Killing someone, or making it to a checkpoint felt good... as if I had overcome something using my brain and my skills to get a difficult job done.

I've all but given up on big main stream developers due to basic economics.  If a dev team has 200 people, a 50 million dollar budget, and 4 years to make a game... they are probably going to play it safe and aim for the largest market possible.  This means lowering barriers to entry.  Making newer players feel welcome and viable.  Lowering the "pain" of doing things wrong.  Making it LOOK like other games.  Falling back on what has worked in the past, etc etc etc.  If they aim for a nitche market (and people who are excited about Darkfall... or people like me who want another rainbow six are nitche markets considering the widespread success of WoW and Halo) and make 50 million dollars... then they just failed.

A smaller company working in smaller numbers can sell less and still be a huge success.  These companies are looking for any sliver of the market that's not satisfied and trying to satisfy their wildest dreams.  If they succeede they will have a band of fans who would take a bullet for them, a nice ballance sheet, and a platform from which to build.

That's where I see Darkfall. 

I agree with the OP just because I feel like not being a part of the WoW/Halo crowd is becomming a dark place to game.  I'd basically lost all hope of anything that fits my needs due to how much money games that don't fit my needs have made recently.  It seriously feels like every game I'll ever see again will be only somewhat enjoyable and only last a short ammount of time.  That makes the most business sense, and I actually feel like that's the goal...

but I'm getting away from the point at hand.

What makes me excited about Darkfall is it's coming from the right place.  It's a small dev team that could profit wildly from a small player base.  That means they can cater to a sliver of the public and win.  I feel like I'm in that sliver.  I feel like this is the first game to come out in probably 5 years that has even teased that they MIGHT be aiming a game at me.  I will buy the game.  Not only will I buy it, but I'll throw a year's sub down before I ever even log in.  Money isn't a problem... finding a game woth spending it on is.

Back to my EQ warrior...

I had 3 main problems... all of which may be solved by Darkfall.  If my EQ warrior was directly ported to Darkfall, this is how I would have solved those problems:

1. With this living PvP world guilds are going to require people.  Not just  people that are going to be on between X and Y hours 5 days a week, but just numbers.  They are going to need gold and supplies... people to defend their cities... and parties to band together to protect those adventuring in the wilderness.  That means if I'm working M, T, Sa, Su this week from 1700 to 0500 that I'll still find plenty of time to be usefull to my guild.

2. In DF gear degrades, is all player made, and not anywhere near as important as it is in other MMOs.  I'm sick and tired of having to be a pawn in nightly 5 hour raids to get myself enough gear to go out and have fun with my friends.  As a late 20s guy with a wedding on the way I don't have the patience or the time to be at 100% attendance long enough to let the loot officers think I'm worthy of upgrades just so I can have fun... which I'd have to do on my own time outside of raids... bleh.  DF takes away the gear dependency and makes it more about what you can do with your skill than what you can collect with your time.  It would be in your guild's best interest to have a stockpile of gear and in time I can see joining a guild... not raiding with one... as enough to have what you need to go out and adventure

3. In DF, you don't have to be at the same skill level as your group to contribute.  Obviously, being a higher level will make you a better group mate, but if you aren't as advanced as the people around you, you can still be a huge help to everyone.  That takes away the "/tell Somecleric Hey, want to start a group?"  /tell Baromen hp/ac AAs? /tell Somecleric XX/XX XXX   /tell Baromen no thanks, you can't tank.  This means that you don't need to grind for 100 hours just to "play the game."  You're playing the game the whole time.

4. If I couldn't tank a zone in EQ I was worthless because of mediocre warrior DPS.  In darkfall, if I found myself becomming worthless to people with what I could do I could just change my course and become usefull again.  If I found I couldn't be affective following one path, I'd just change to something I COULD be affective with.  If this was my EQ toon I can tell you right now I would have went melee DPS just because they are needed and can be undergeared... but I digress again.

In conclusion, I don't see why anyone would want this to fail.  Being a doubter is one thing.  I have all the same doubts.  But wanting this to fail or helping it fail by spreading negativity everywhere as fact instead of as concern is just stupid.  If it comes out and is unplayable, terrible, not fun, etc then I'm wrong... and I won't be shocked.  But, if they produce even a small percentage of what they promised... holy shit will this rock.

Wed Jan 07 2009 12:07PM Report
Baromen writes:

Another thing, I was terrified of PvP in EQ.  I didn't like the idea of running into someone I mathmatically could never kill in the middle of a quest and losing all the time it takes to recover a corpse just to have the same dude hanging around waiting for me when I came back.

I'm excited about the PvP in Darkfall because if you're good at the game.  If you can outsmart someone... you will kill them regardless of how many hours they've dumped into the game.

THAT MAKES GANKING A SERIOUS DECISION.  You have to see someone and decide wether or not you think you're better skilled than they are... not just /con them to see if you will win mathmatically.

Ganking in a totally open pvp also should help form politics.  Very simply, that means if people are being jerks, you'll join with other people to stop them from being jerks.  Whole societies could be built just on protecting each other.  Guilds will become powerful and if they abuse that power... the little people will have to rise up to demolish their empire.

Add the economics of degrading gear and full looting to the natural politics and you have a vibrant and interesting world where you WILL find a place for your skill set and play style...

I feel like such a fanboi... I really hope this game doesn' t fail

Wed Jan 07 2009 12:18PM Report
Paragus1 writes:

All good points!   I'm honored you felt this worthy of registering to post :)   The budget thing is a really good point.   So much money gets tied up in the newer MMOs, that they can't afford to deviate much from the safest path, often times the least innovative.

A lot of people out there feel the same way you do, especially judging by how many websites I have found this article on.  My brother is the same way.  He used to play back when MMOs were deep and interesting, and refuses to play most of them ones we have seen in the last few years.   He is coming out of retirement for Darkfall though because of the way it gives the player the freedom you would expect from a game called an RPG.

Wed Jan 07 2009 12:21PM Report
Baromen writes:

I am glad you agree with me, but this problem goes beyond MMOs... actually, it goes beyond gaming.  As people find things that make money (radio, TV, games, moves, etc) they find ways to draw more money to them.  That normally means that the smaller pieces of the pie get ignored in favor of the larger pieces. 

In TV we can see this in John From Cincinnati (sp?).  It was my favorite show I've ever seen.  Beautiful and unpredictable.  Moving and awe inspiring.  It had millions of viewers... but because it didn't follow a viewer trend that HBO wanted... it's gone.  A show had finally come out that made me turn on my TV.  I hadn't done that in my adult life.  One season... gone.

There is just so much at stake with entertainment... and so many companies doing everything they can to squeeze every last dollar out of the consumer... and so many of companies throwing big bucks around... that it truely leaves behind the nitches.  Those nitches will get bigger over time too.  People think they are immune because they like something that's popular... but look at us.  We can list at least 3 successful MMOs that we loved (UO, EQ, AC) yet we can't find a game that satisfies us.

At one point you didn't market something that had a market interest of less than... say... 5%.  I would say that number is something like 50% now.  I can only see it getting worse if companies don't start rethinking their business models.  If Adventurine (spelling???) makes big bucks on this game... you think Darkfall 2 would be any good?  Probably not... unless they don't follow the popular path of:

1. Make game for small percentage of the gaming population.

2. Make high profits on game that was made cheap in comparison

3. Use profits to make HUGE sequel that has wider appeal thus abandoning their player base. (I'm looking at you, Ubisoft)

4. rinse repeat for massive profits

Wed Jan 07 2009 1:01PM Report
EndDream writes:

Id like to point out to the people who disagree with the post that there will always be a WAR or a WoW.. regardless of the success or failure of darkfall.. success in the sandbox MMO genre will simply cause more good MMO's to be made.. and even those who prefer sandboxes may be rewarded with innovation that trickles over from the sandbox side.

Wed Jan 07 2009 1:15PM Report
Paragus1 writes:

Another good point EndDream.   I never understood why so many people are hostile towards the prospect of this game.   There is no shortage of theme-park games.    They have WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, AoC, WAR, and soon Aion.   I am sure there will be many more because of how safe they are from a business view.   All we want are other options.

Wed Jan 07 2009 2:31PM Report
Baromen writes:

It's the same way people will sit there and bash one console because they own the other one.  What they don't understand is that it's not important who sells more.  It only matters if there are enough people online to make it fun and that the company makes enough money providing the game so that they can keep it moving along.  Beyond that, I could care less what the sales numbers, subs, etc are.

If Darkfall was the 100th MMO by subs but still had enough people to make it fun and interesting... I'd still play it.

Wed Jan 07 2009 5:34PM Report
arcana666 writes:

I agree with this article for the most part.  I'm one of those people that is taking a last stand on Darkfall - I'm going to play it and if it flops then I'll be giving up on the genre completely.  No MMORPG has excited me since Ultima Online (although I did quite like the original SWG).

For the people that complain that they're working adults that don't have time for such a deep game - that's fine.  You have tons of other MMORPGs to choose from that fit more in to your lifestyle.  I'm also a working adult but I spend a LOT of time in these games and I get no satisfaction at all from WoW and it's many copies.

People are different and atm there isn't an MMORPG in existence that captures my imagination because I'm not willing to sit on the ride and wait for the fun to come to me - it never does.  I need real depth to a game.  A game that doesn't punish you for dying, and allows little to no customization nor the possibility for adventure isn't a game to me at all - it's a yawnfest.

For the first time in over 10 years I find myself not playing any MMORPGs at all.  I have an EVE Online subscription but if I'm honest, I just log in and set new skills training and then log off.

It's Darkfall or bust for me!

Thu Jan 08 2009 9:50AM Report
Tyranix writes:

Nice article. I know in my case I will be buying and supporting DF for at least 3 months. If its a rocky launch hopefully the majority of people will give them support instead of headaches. They have done so much with so little and the games success and future will depend on us the players.

Tue Jan 27 2009 10:07AM Report
VigarLunaris writes:

At all sandboxing for freedom is ok ... Fear of Dying ;) not than you could get  killed by player everythere too.

As some here allready written .. i have to do my work too. Only Schoolmates / Students would have the Time to spent hours of working for nothing, because they get hitted somewhere around, one case player of my age prefer to play games that penality of death isn't give you a day long backstep.

Now DF is up an running, we would see how many players will enjoy the thrid or fourth rework at a char. I think only people have the time will enjoy and also if here noone will believe this - there are quite only a little piece of people around that really have the time to do this.

Fri Mar 27 2009 2:12AM Report
Fr0z1nDuDe writes:

 i gotta stop you right there in your first paragraph... the "vapor trolls" were right... and darkfall developers knew they were right... and they got scared... so they released it... but was it ready to be released? no... as someone else had said... you are paying for an open beta... that's all... have fun...

Tue Apr 07 2009 8:24AM Report
Fr0z1nDuDe writes:

I agree with you... Darkfall's features are ideal for a "mmo"... BUT... you are wrong on some things... if Darkfall does become financially successful (which it can), it DOES NOT mean there is a market for sandbox MMOs. Why? Hmm... probably because 95% of the (Real) gamers around the world DOES NOT want to live a "second life"... so your sandbox game player population is VERY VERY limited...

what you really SHOULD want is one single sandbox game developed near perfection... and gather all your sandbox loving players (who all wants a second life) all into one "world"... 

when i say near perfection i mean everything... graphics / gameplay / CHARACTER ANIMATION (omfg DF characters runs like ROBOTS ugly as HELL) / no bugs / no holes / no cheats... as for graphics... out of all the screens i seen... why the fuk is all the skies red... wtf i'm playing in hell or something... go look at Lotro skies... now THAT'S a beautiful sky...

as for bugs, holes, and cheats... everyone's excuse is that they have little money when making this game... well maybe all the sandbox developers out there were a little SMARTER and not full of COCKY PRIDE and join up together to make that single sandbox game in the world to near perfection... they would have more money AND more people working on the game...

serisouly... your sandbox game player population is more LIMITED than you think... if you have 20 amazingly developed sandbox mmo's... NONE of them would have enough players and they would all end up like guild wars... so no... there ISN'T a market for sandbox mmo's... there can only be ONE sandbox mmo...

 

Tue Apr 07 2009 8:52AM Report
reanor writes:

Free for all PvP world? Not gonna live for a long time. In the end this game will have a few "groups of orcs" on their war ships fighting each other and thats about it. I've seen couple open PvP games that only were interesting for a short while. As soon as kids get through the hype and calm down during the first 1-2 months this game won't be as 'exciting' as it seemed before. Poor graphics, poor community (open PvP games are always full of idiots, underaged kids who can't hold their temper and want to be uber poober and pwn things, thats the only self expression they can find other than brag in school that they have a pig mount).

The whole problem today is that gamers are spoiled by those dumbed down games. They were playing those kinds of games for like 10 years. Those who used to grow up while those games were popular like someone mentioned already have families and jobs. New generation of kids that are in their teens now they don't know what sand box game is and very few of them are itnerested in that type of game. They are XBOX360 generation, where you just need to point the weapon and push the button to shoot.

Games of "other genres" find only popularity between "former teenagers" who now are young or grown up men. Which means casual gameplay, which means that DF won't have enough loyal gamers to have appropriate support. Generation of WOW players has grown up now and there are not too many gamers who follow their steps.  Sandbox genre is not popular any more. Not becouse I said so, but becouse the time is different now and younger generation of gamers is dumbed down quite a bit.

Mon Apr 20 2009 9:08AM Report

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