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Paragus Rants

Rants, reviews, and interviews from an MMO veteran and guild leader.

Author: Paragus1

Warhammer Woes at 60 Days

Posted by Paragus1 Monday November 24 2008 at 6:55PM
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Warhammer Woes at 60 Days


I feel compelled to do another installment here on how Warhammer online is progressing a little past the 60 day mark of going live. Those of you who have followed my writing on MMORPG.com and MMOCrunch may remember that I wrote my review of the game right before launch, and at the 30 day mark I wrote about the Top 5 Issues with the game. Now past 60 days, Warhammer Online finds itself struggling due to what I believe are 3 main problems that need immediate fixing.

1) Itemization

This is the first issue that is crushing my motivation to play. This is one of the 5 points I touched on in my previous Warhammer article and it remains to be a major problem. The stats on most if not all of the high end gear are horrible. I am almost inclined to think the stats were picked by a Mythic Dev throwing darts, they make little to no sense for their respective classes and seem almost random in the stats and set bonuses.

This is a major problem because the high end gear is one of the primary motivators to play. Unlike DAOC which had interesting realm abilities to chose from, Warhammer uses RvR gear as the carrot at the end of the stick to keep you wanting to advance and participate in RvR. The fact that the stats are so poor on these items completely takes the wind out of the player's sails to participate and chase the carrot. Unfortunately this problem is not only limited to the RvR gear. I was fortunate enough to get 4 of my Sentinel pieces for my Shadow Warrior in a single run through Sigmar's Crypt. In any other game I would be elated to be this lucky, but the excitement was quickly diminished when I realized none of the items were an upgrade, and the set bonus was actually worse then a lower level Bloodlord set. This needs to be fixed immediately, and if not before the end of the billing cycle, then there will be a further bleeding of subscriptions.

2) Overworld RvR Mechanic

The overworld RvR mechanic simply is not working. In a recent patch, Mythic claimed they made changes to the "Victory Point" system which determines how and when a zone will flip to the control of one team or the other. The patch claimed it would make scenarios carry less weight, thus putting more weight on the overworld and making zones flip faster. Yesterday my guild had an ORvR day to make a real push on the Destruction territory. After taking all the keeps and battle objectives in all 3 pairings, I was shocked to see that we were only halfway to flipping in 1 zone, and even less in the other 2 zones. Nobody wants to be forced to run public quests, which offer terrible rewards and are tedious, in order to flip a zone. Scenarios other than Serpent's Passage still are not popping as needed, and I play on Skull Throne which is widely viewed as the highest pop server in the game. This leads to all the objectives being taken and being unable to progress, so people log off or go run mindless scenarios.

Another problem is practice of keep trading that has been developing as of late. In a recent patch, Mythic decided to make all keep lords to drop 3 gold bags 100% of the time when defeated. Unfortunately, players will always take the path of least resistance when trying to get stronger. It has become a common practice to see an Order Army and a Destruction Army deliberately avoiding each other and attacking undefended keeps for the easy gold bags. If you are out for loot, why would you attacked a defended keep when you can attack an undefended one a lot easier and get the same reward? On the flip side, why defend a keep if there no tangible reward for doing so? It is actually better to let them take the keep so you can take it back later and get 3 more gold bags. Even if I did want to defend, the keeps are taken so fast that the battle would most likely be over by the time I arrive. This entire system needs to be looked at quickly.

3) Contribution System

In case you haven't been reading various Warhammer related forums, someone seems to have come up with a theory about how contribution is calculated that I have been unable to disprove after testing with my guild extensively. The theory states in short, that whenever you zone into an area, you are given a randomly generated contribution number before you do anything. This randomly generated value will stay with you until you zone or relog. I can enter a zone and be given a value of 900 while my friend gets a value of 100. We can attack a keep together and if I do nothing while he does all the work, I will still beat him in contribution when the keep lord dies. If we move the second keep we see the same exact thing happen, but only if he relogs or zones will his contribution rating change.

After collecting data from my guild, I can conclude that this theory not only seems viable, but likely. Knowing this, it makes it hard for me to want to try and help anyone during a keep fight since my contribution rating has been predetermined no matter what my actions are. I wouldn't expect Mythic to comment on this because if they admitted that this was how the system works, the outrage would be massive. Now as much as it pisses me off to think this is true, the blow is softened by the fact that the itemization is so bad that the rewards are often times worse then most of the green items I have of lesser level.

The Billing Cycle

Warhammer's issues are starting to catch up.   A week ago we crossed over into a new billing cycle for those of us who started at release. As I mentioned earlier, even on Skull Throne I am noticing some of the guilds disappearing, I looked up some of the biggest instigators of RvR on the opposing side, and a lot of them have large portions of their roster who hasn't been on since the new billing cycle started. While I am sure some can be attributed to the Lich King, I can't blame those who have decided to sit this out until the big patch. 

If nothing changes during this cycle, this game is going to sustain serious damage to its subscriber base. Even if the diehards decide to ride it out, the premise of the game requires a lot of people to be playing and participating in RvR. The incentive to do so is not there with the 3 problems above. Mythic needs to prioritize issues that will drive people to quit. That new sound for the horn when I get on my mount is nice, but 4 of the classes are severely underpowered, the items are junk, the RvR system is flawed, and 2 new classes are not going to steer this away from the edge of the cliff.

Paragus
Co-Leader of Inquisition
www.inqguild.com

Elethon writes:

Well written. I'm on Skull Throne myself and I find the Zone control frustrating to no end.

Mon Nov 24 2008 7:27PM Report
t0nyd writes:

The fanboi's will be in shortly to tell you that the new patch is the savior. That all problems will be fixed mystically in this one patch. Hell, id settle for little hot fixes that got shit like, uhh, the morale abilities to actually work when I clicked them. Whoever came up with the idea to lump all fixes in one big patch is a moron...

Mon Nov 24 2008 8:33PM Report
prowlinger writes:

I agree with your statements here...  the game is facing serious confrontations against the new releases of WoW and LOTRO... especially when some raving lovers of the game still are plagued by the 30 minute nvidia memory leak on my PNY 9800 gt (1gb card). It is sad that te economy is chipping away at paying subscribers and the developers of many mmorpgs.

Seriously though... if the CTDs are not addressed by the next billing cycle and / or the next big patch,  I too may have to cancel Warhammer soon. The frustration is too overwhelming of CTDs let alone greatly descreasing population counts on my server.

They need to allow floating profiles of all players and guilds to transfer to more populated servers, similar to how Guild Wars works. This way all servers could stay populated and full and empty servers can be dropped as needed.

I truely love Warhammer Online... but I am seeing it buckle with the golden struts that hold it up...  EA Mythic this may be your chance to save your own Keep...

Mon Nov 24 2008 9:18PM Report
Otakun writes:

These statements are indeed true. Unlike t0nyd's whiney baby complaints these ones are ones that actually need fixing for the game to get players back.

Mon Nov 24 2008 10:19PM Report
dethgar writes:

I agree with everything you've said. I posted my review last week here in a blog, it got hit with the fanboi shitstorm but I expected it. However if they come through with some of their promises, and fix open RvR(more rewarding, important) I'll come back. Right now though, I may as well continue grinding WoTLK. =\

Mon Nov 24 2008 10:30PM Report
zergwatch writes:

Your comments are dead on.  I had no expectations for Warhammer prior to launch, but came to truly enjoy the game until the night Lich King came out and since had to wait 20-40 minutes for serpent's and tor anroc queues, only to find the keep swapping crap going on also on Volkmar.   After unknowingly joining one of these keep swapping warbands, realizing after getting yelled at for attacking order, I cancelled my subscription.

The ball is now in Mythic's court as to whether or not I can come back.  I hope they will make the game a fun and rewarding PVP game that breeds hate and anger between factions that is needed to sustain a viable PVP community.

For now, I'm messing around with Lich King and I really don't even like WoW, but there is too much going wrong with Warhammer.

I would hate for this game to slip away in the shitpile that holds Age of Conan and Vanguard.  

Mon Nov 24 2008 10:48PM Report
YaVoin writes:

too late!!! already dropped my account, no you can't have my stuff...

Mon Nov 24 2008 11:31PM Report
ZoOoO writes:

Spot On

 

I woould like to know if you dont mind if i translate your post and ill post it in a Spanish war web site, of course, will have your name attached.

Tue Nov 25 2008 12:33AM Report
Sortran writes:

Well written and spot on imo. The gear is rather rediculous. I dont even pursue higher end gear for my witch hunter as its not as good for what I need for my play style. I will say that orvr on has been hopping well on Ironrock and often when I log in and onto vent there is always chatter for keep sieges with defenders trying to hold it but only during prime times. After that its just warbands castle hopping. I have already started to cut back the play time and shift it to other games that I play.

I am willing to continue but with less then half my normal weekly playtime. After the big patch, I will review the game for myself and see if I wish to keep playing or go find another game out there. Wish some company would launch a solid game for once that I can enjoy!

Tue Nov 25 2008 1:30AM Report
mk11232 writes:

Very well written and after 60 days it seems that Mythic is not addressing the core issues.  The problems with the live events only underscore that things are not well there.  They are rushed out and serverely broken when put to live showing that nobody ever actually tried out the changes or tested them to make sure not to fubar what's currently in the game.

Tue Nov 25 2008 1:55AM Report
Devalon writes:

My server was able to flip zones easily once you know how it done. So yeah can flip the zone but once you reach the fortress the server cant handle the 100+ v 100+ battle. The server lag was so bad that the timer on the fortress was off. its been an hour but in game it only been 40minutes or so.

Itemization was a pushing point but not nail in the coffin. some items weren't even added to the game til 15days ago or so.  I did 100's of keep seiges and never got the item. We should of been awarded the item when they finnaly added them. It was just  bs.

They added classes and other content.  but..  they didnt even fix broken classes or skills. I mean wtf. I quit right then. I have skills that I couldnt even use. I had a pet pathing that made it even worst for most of my skills.

Another thing,I can quit  and come back in a year or 2. Then i'll get ream rank 80  10 times faster because of the shitty system.  It a good idea to add something but not this extreme.

there content in free games that are more polish. I seen better auction house on Atlantica Online.

Tue Nov 25 2008 7:31AM Report
Digna writes:

I left already. Bought my game (CE edition) signed up for a 3 month sub after the 30 days that came with the game. Uninstalled it yesterday. For me the idea of level versus renown level was a great one in theory but lacking in the end. Sure I was a bit behind when I hit 40 (the first month or so playing an Order toon, scenarios often weren't worth playing. Destro was getting massive numbers of XP/renown while winning over and over and scs ended up as a time sink for Order.)

At this point though, retaking keeps and re-running scs over and over is just lacking the 'fun'. Getting to renown rank 80 to get better gear with no other end game content is pointless. Okay, I admit that after I hit 40 I had to run Serpent's Passage 100+ times to get to this point of boredom but I see no fixes in sight to alleviate this inherent 'missing' piece.

One thing that would help a little would be paid character transfers. My toons are (currently) on a completely dead server. I have the option of transferring to a couple of low/low population servers. Sorry. Not going to happen. Let me pay to have h my top 40s move to a med/med server (of which there are few) and maybe I would be interested. As for now, I uninstalled even with a month yet to go on my account/paid time. *shrug* Hope the game adds/changes enough for me to go back sometime soon.

Tue Nov 25 2008 7:46AM Report
Paragus1 writes:

Sure Zooo.   My articles already end up on a lot of websites as it is.  Feel free to use it for content to your site if you wish.

Tue Nov 25 2008 8:31AM Report
Deewe writes:

Interesting article.

I never understood the PQ and RVR roll system, this theory's shaking the foundations of the game, really.

I'm not very fond of itemization but I agree there are issue with how they implemented it.

In the long term it gets boring to to scenarios again and again beause you get faster XP there.

RvR should reward defenders and ALL winners or at least use a token system.

Last thing socialization is plain dead.

Bump

Tue Nov 25 2008 9:29AM Report
Eveeldour writes:

I really wanted WAR to work, however the MMO Community and Industry are alot less forgiving then back in the days of EQ and UO.

Abandon Ship!

Tue Nov 25 2008 9:51AM Report
afoaa writes:

Spot on and sadly these problems make you feel that everything else you can do or have done in the game are pointless and you have wasted your time.

Lets hope that the big ORvR anouncement that MJ is talking about today adress these issues.

Tue Nov 25 2008 11:23AM Report
Vegetta writes:

/salute

very well said

 

Tue Nov 25 2008 12:02PM Report
Perjure writes:

I play on Skull Throne as well, and it's population has been dropping as well. The OP is spot on! I have canceled and re-subbed hoping that the "big" patch will fix some of this or I think the game will join AoC and Vanguard

Tue Nov 25 2008 12:03PM Report
fansede writes:

Someone has to write a piece on how WoW influences the entire MMO industry these days. I am convinced this game would not have come out if it weren't for Lich King launch date announcement.

As a result, the game could have been truly polished. I still remember Hickman and Barnett touting the game is finished. It is done. just needs a little more polish back in August.

Man... What a bummer!

Tue Nov 25 2008 4:38PM Report
micona writes:

To be honest i have cancelled as well and enjoying the new classes in LOTR .

The poor items stats in the game was a real problem for me , same thing happened to me in AOC for poor items stats there too.

I wish mythic good luck anyhow .

Tue Nov 25 2008 6:28PM Report
randomt writes:

Good article.  I quit a while ago too, although my reasons were related to my expecting some kind of fun pvp like in DOAC, and ending up with this linear broken rvr system.

Tue Nov 25 2008 6:52PM Report
Qabalah writes:

 I never installed the game. The box is still sitting on my desk. I called it.

Wed Nov 26 2008 3:37AM Report
Battlekruse writes:

It does explain an awful lot of weird results I’ve had, both good and bad. I’ve had #1 and #2 contribution spots when I *knew* that I didn’t rate them — not that I hadn’t done anything, but just totting up what I did in some keep sieges compared to what I saw others do, and it was obvious I shouldn’t have had the gold bag. Not once, but twice in a row. The only other reason I could think of for it at the time was that I was the lowest level there, and that maybe it beefs up contributions from lower-ranked chars to sort of even the playing field a little — I’d have preferred that as an explanation.

I’m still hoping this will be debunked. Sadly, it’s pretty damned plausible and almost everyone I’ve spoken to has said something like “Aahhh, that does explain a lot.” :|
 

Wed Nov 26 2008 5:37PM Report
ScamMan writes:

We see a lot of bummed WAR players over in AoC these days. So WAR bleed subs like no tomorrow.

Sat Nov 29 2008 3:58PM Report
zippy123 writes:

Yup, pretty much all you said is the sad truth, Too me the biggest killer is the whole oRvR system is poorly designed. Cut down the number of  keeps and make the keeps larger and more valuable to take and hold on too. Get rid of the VP system, it is asnine,  Two major Keeps per Tier, whoever controls the two keeps, controls the Tier.

Sun Nov 30 2008 11:57AM Report
Strike2k writes:

I agree with this review 100%. Patches are always nice, but hell, Fix the glaring issues first. Then add polish and more careers at a later date. I have a warrior Priest and Prayer Of Absolution still only reaches 20 feet when the tool tip says 150 ft.

Orvr is not as prevailent as i'd like it to be. The importance of attacking and defending keeps just isnt there.

Big dissapointment from a very promissing title.

Tue Dec 02 2008 2:01PM Report
Detoxiation writes:

Here is what I just posted to Mythic:

I have been seeing a lot of this feedback lately along these lines, decided to copy one of complaints made by a member of my guild:

"I am sick and tired of bein fetched off keep rooftops because of oil bugs, i'm tired of bein bounced off wall tops because order can AE knockback the oil, fortresses crash when destruction try and take them, yet the doors almost open when order comes around for the taking. I seriously considered quitting, but there are no good alternatives....so alting and I will assist in any way i can with my shammy as long as it's not fort related."

I have seen this for about 1 month now on my server straight, ever since destruction had an opportunity to take a fort and order crashed the same zone 3x using 50+ banners in one spot. 1/2 to 3/4 of the Destruction population has decided not to play their mains now due to bugs involving open RVR and never seeing patches involving fixing problems in a long while. I know you are swamped with bug reports, but work on T4, your losing your core players due to problems with that, the people who are recommending this game are starting to regret they did so.
__________________________________________________________________________________

 

So, if you feel this way about this game, send feedback, make it known that there are issues that need to be resolved. 1 post about this will not get their attention, a hundred wont, 1000 they may mention it, 10,000 the company will bring it up in a board meeting, 100,000 and it will be a hotfix the next day.
 

To the Order:  I am sorry I have not played your all's side to know your issues.  Feel free to add some quotes to this and spam it around, just please leave my part alone while doing that.  Thank you!

Tue Jan 06 2009 10:57AM Report
undead17 writes:

well written out i did enjoy it , im one fo the die hard fans , just a quick question or has anyone else not noticed it? the intro to the game is much like the game , all of the destro toons die but none of the order ? i still think its funny 2 black orcs 1 marauder and a chosen all geared up unable to take down a knight of the blazing sun quickly ,.... nooooo order not over powered ,,,,, honest, oh well lets wait for the next uber gimped out charater the slayer .

Tue Mar 03 2009 1:37AM Report
Paragus1 writes:

Don't get me started on the intro.   The same intro that showed my shadow warrior dual wielding, but never could do actually do in the game.

Tue Mar 03 2009 7:32AM Report
kelthroun writes:

I am with you man....In my opinion warhammer will keep on losing players.Personally i am looking forward to Darkfall.Cya there :)

Sat Mar 07 2009 6:24AM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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