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The Theory Of

Here you'll find discussion of all manner of topics relating to the theory of multiplayer games. As I see it, anyway. A note to commentors: if you stray off-topic or if your reply contains ad hominem attacks, your comment will be deleted.

Author: JB47394

Eve Online as a Fantasy MMO

Posted by JB47394 Tuesday November 6 2007 at 5:40PM
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Star systems become valleys ringed by mountains.  Star bases become towns.  Star gates become mountain passes.  Asteroid belts and ice fields become farmland, water supplies, mines and forests.  Corporations are guilds.

The interesting part comes in when we consider what to do with spaceships.  They aren't like armor and equipment because they do things automatically.  Guns and missiles shoot, shield boosters boost, repair modules repair, and so on.  Also, they can get destroyed while the player character can sneak away.

Ships become NPCs.

Player characters accumulate skills in the ordering of NPCs.  A player character might specialize in the ordering of NPC mages, bowmen or warriors.  Backup skills might involve commanding NPCs that heal or repair equipment on the spot.  If you don't have the skills for managing a certain type of NPC, you can't take that NPC type out into the field.  The more capable the NPC, the more skill it takes to command them.

The building of components for ships becomes the building of equipment for NPCs.  The building of ships becomes the collection of NPCs.  Raw materials are needed to build ships and components, and raw materials would be needed to support the collection of NPCs.  So just like a realtime strategy game, the player character has to use NPCs to collect the materials for more NPCs and their equipment.

In PvE combat, a player character's NPCs battle the environmental NPCs.  Per Eve Online, the player side is much tougher than the environmental side.

In PvP combat, the two sides slug it out for dominion over various valleys throughout the empire.  Controlling a valley means controlling its resources, and that lets players build up their NPC corps.  Skills determine how many NPCs they can command at one time, but the resources determine how many NPCs they have in reserve.

Some NPCs are extremely nasty.  They take so many resources to enlist that no single person could hope to both collect the resources and then control that NPC.  Imagine a mature dragon or some such beast.  To enlist a dragon requires a huge raft of resources, and it also takes a very skilled player character to make sure the dragon does what it's told.  Off to battle, and the dragon steps on the slower enemy NPCs, but may have some trouble with the smaller, faster enemy NPCs.  (Yes, this matches the general balance in Eve Online).

In this fantasy treatment of Eve Online there are no levels, no classes.  Players spend their time using collector NPCs to directly gather resources or using combat NPCs to kill off monsters on quests offered by the king's bureaucracy in order to get the monster resources and rewards from the king's emissaries.  Once player characters have enough resources, they can enlist NPCs of various capabilities and mixes according to their player character's cumulative skills.  Or just add to their guild's reserve force of NPCs.  And then they can jump into the battle for domination of all valleys and their resources.  Or they can devote their efforts to continuing to go on quests.

To ensure that only specific NPC combinations are permitted (permutations of ship equipment are limited), a player character might have to enlist a foreman NPC that ultimately limits what the player character can and cannot do with the NPCs that actually do the dirty work.

For those not familiar with Eve Online, there is a vast central tract of valleys (star systems) that are ruled by the king (the empire).  The king's guards (the empire police) ensure that peace is enforced.  So that's where everyone starts in order to build up a little bit of wealth and familiarity with the systems before joining a guild (corporation) and starting to slug it out with the other guilds.

The guilds base themselves in outlying valleys, and can control as many valleys and build as many towns as the valleys that they control will support.  The NPCs don't do anything without a player character commanding them through his foreman NPC, so it's not like one player can be running multiple valleys.

That's a take on transporting the game system of Eve Online to the fantasy realm.  I'm not a big fan of PvP, and the limitations inherent in Eve Online's systems resulted in boredom for me after about 2 months.  However, for those interested in a game without levels or classes (per se), this fantasy treatment of Eve Online suggests how things can be rebalanced to keep game play entertaining.

Twiner writes:

why do we need another fantasy mmo?

Tue Nov 06 2007 6:29PM Report
Dhaeman writes:

Because there isn't a good one?

Tue Nov 06 2007 8:14PM Report
Siknn writes:

That actually sounds like a REALLY good Idea to me

Tue Nov 06 2007 8:51PM Report
Swatch writes:

hate fantasy mmo.. its all because of  Tolkien n HIS great ideas but he started a revolution though.. but is EVE is SO unique.. why compare it?

Tue Nov 06 2007 9:11PM Report
JB47394 writes:

Guys, this article is one thing: an attempt at mapping the gameplay structure of Eve Online to a fantasy setting.  It's just an academic exercise presented in order to illustrate that fantasy games don't have to be about experience points, levels and classes.  There are other formulations.

The same thing can be done with chess, with bridge or any other game.  It's a matter of understanding what the interrelation of the game pieces is, and then putting it all in a fantasy context.  It just happens to be rather straightforward with Eve Online, and I thought the mapping of spaceships to a collection of NPCs was interesting.

Tue Nov 06 2007 10:00PM Report
dA_fReAK writes:

I would have prefered an EVE fantasy TBH, but thats just me.

Also, a WASD movement for a fantasy game though.

This is actually what i've been wishing for :)

Tue Nov 06 2007 10:28PM Report
Lodeclaw writes:

I've been considering the possibilities of using some of EVE's techniques in a fantasy setting, myself. Great entry.

Tue Nov 06 2007 11:56PM Report
zigmund writes:

Funny, I've been wanting this type of game ever since I first started playing Eve, good article.

Wed Nov 07 2007 2:04AM Report
Norden writes:

I agree, EvE does a lot of things better than the existing crowd of fantasy-mmorpgs. In fact, I had some thoughts along the same line. Especially a player driven economy would be great.

One thing though. as I see it, there are 2 basic types of first-person combat, a) the grind-your-hitpoints-away type of fantasy combat and b) the shooter, i.e. modern or futuristic firefights.

The first doesnt work well at all on the computer. It is near impossible to simulate real duelling, attack and parries, so we grind instead - yuck. Firefights on the other hand work quite well on computers. So what am I getting at? In my dream-mmorpg, one should take most of the above, but not into fantasy, but some futuristic setting, post-apocalyptic or whatever. In this kind of setting, you could also use machines as well as NPC's to control. Problem here would be to "raise" the dead again, at least if you dont want to use magic - again.

 

Wed Nov 07 2007 2:45AM Report
Norden writes:

Great post, btw :-)

Wed Nov 07 2007 3:10AM Report
Thaliost writes:

excellent transposition of the brillian eve setting into a fantasy setting.

 

Hope one day it will happen. In the meantime, i hope AoC will cater to some of those features.

Wed Nov 07 2007 6:15AM Report
Staatsschutz writes:

Darkfall --> Fantasy-Eve (or might also call it UO2)

Pirates of the Burning Sea --> Pirates-Eve

Wed Nov 07 2007 7:42AM Report
DJDizzy writes:

no, not, never

Wed Nov 07 2007 11:56AM Report
JB47394 writes:

Norden, you're absolutely right about the difficulties of producing an interesting duel in the fantasy genre.  After playing Eve Online for a while, I realized that they had made an extremely clever move by implementing their system in the science-fiction genre - all the interactions are between ships, not organic beings.

That means that they didn't have to implement all the various and sundry animations that go with walking, emoting and fighting humanoids, arachnoids, reptilians and so on.

I was inspired to put a bunch of my own ideas down on paper, and I too chose the science fiction genre just because the computer is so marvelously well-equipped to handle inanimate objects.

Thanks for bringing that up, because it's an excellent point.

Wed Nov 07 2007 7:33PM Report
menyet writes:

Really interesting and great article :)

Fri Nov 09 2007 3:08PM Report
Norden writes:

hey, you didnt cover law-levels. Go into negativ and become and outlaw in certain places...

 

Thu Nov 15 2007 6:35AM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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