The Theory Of

Here you'll find discussion of all manner of topics relating to the theory of multiplayer games. As I see it, anyway. A note to commentors: if you stray off-topic or if your reply contains ad hominem attacks, your comment will be deleted.

Author: JB47394

How bout something like this...... A martial arts based MMO that sets the player against the world in order to learn and master the art of (insert your prefered Martial Arts or even better create your own). There would be no Levels so to speak only new skills learned through utilization of currrent abilities. ie in order to learn a new punch you either have to have seen someone else do it or attempt your own punch until you "discover" said ability. Better even then that would be a creation screen where you map out the paths of your attacks..... I'll get back to this in a sec.

Anyway when ever you encounter a combat situation you and your opponent square off. As you move around your opponent openings appear on your screen based on the attacks you have learned and the situation your in. Distance would be a factor movement would be a factor and more importantly skill would be a factor. All to often in games these days you can start the fight and hold a conversation or even watch a movie while playing as your attention is not truly needed for the grind. Instead while you fight the situation changes, not every opponent will have the same style of fighting as the last let alone the skill. Bring that in with a collision detector that allows for your hits to actually matter. Striking someones head could blur they're screen and make getting those combos off just that much harder. Taking out a leg would impair movement and since you have to be close enough to hit your opponent as well as have the abilities to hit them where they stand in regaurd to yourself. As an example your back kick is only going to be able to hit someone who is actually behind you. I'm sure there are people out there who could take this to the next level and push these ideas further but how cool would it be to see something like that out there.

now back to the pathing idea as far as your attacks are concerned how cool would it be to create your own martial arts by collecting moves and abilities that not everyone has. The combos would be yours and yours alone sure someone might come and learn your fighting style but only if you wanted to teach it or they wanted to follow you around watching what you do. Down side is your casual gamer might feel a little under appreciated but to be honest with this style of combat where your exploiting openings vs depleating HP a truly skilled gamer with a little bit of time a day could defeat a less intelligent or adaptable person who plays all the time. It would actually come down to skill as opposed to Time spent in the game.

Thats what I got sorry for the length and randomness of it all!

KubiGariya

I've been reading the last several comments regarding the No-level topic and I think a good option would be to replace it by a reputation system.  The way it would work would be the following way.   When you first start your character you are given certain guest or path to follow.  Finishing those quests will let you gain some reputation with the city guard, the thief guild or with a small village.  Once your reputation goes up you get the right to talk to other people in the area that will then offer you enough reputation to move further whiting the world.   Everyone would have the same amount of life point the only thing that would make a difference between you and someone else would be your equipment.  That would mean that anyone could wear any type of armor or weapons.   But you could only be wearing certain items if you have enough reputation.   As an example: You would not have the right to be wear a full plate suit of some prestigious knight guild if you don't have the reputation to wear it.    This way it would still be possible for a first day character to join a dragon hunt if the other party members are willing to give him a full suit of body armor.   Some of you would be asking how the newbie get access to one city to another.  The option would be to allow the group leader to share is reputation with the group he’s with.  This means that as long as the newbie is with the group leader he as the right to move from on section of world to another.  As well the same idea could be added for guild.  If you chose to join a guild the guild might have some privilege that other don’t. As well the opposite could also be in affect.  Choosing to ally yourself with a city could also affect your reputation with another negatively.    This means that certain quest will affect you reputation in both direction.   Your hit point would also be affected by the type of armor you are wearing the better the outfit the more hit point you have.  How do you acquire your equipment?  The same way as any other games, merchant, monster drop or crafting.  How do you get money?   By killing monster doing guest and more.      More to come…..

Drakelore, I think that experiments along those lines are very much needed.  I'm sure many players would enjoy such a system.  My own version of such a fluid combat system is rather more sedate, with my character doing much of the fighting itself, based on instructions that I gave it in advance.  During the fight, I can tell my character to change between strategies that I have defined such as Kill, Disarm, Give Ground, Hold Position, Break Through, Delay, and so on.

This would permit my character to have its own reflexes while I have to keep an eye on what's going on around it so that every couple seconds I can give my character new orders.  I'm just not a fan of micromanaging a character in combat.

That said, I can imagine that system permitting micromanagement such that a player could have very focused strategies that consist of a single action.  The player would be typing like a madman to get the character dodging, ducking, attacking and blocking, but it should be possible.

Part of the inspiration for such a system is the fact that characters today, when attacked, stand there like dummies unless the players start pressing keys.  I'd just as soon expect my character to do something useful even when I'm not telling it what to do.  If you look at this Euphoria technology video:

http://www.tv.com/uservideos/?action=video_player&id=cnAyxGH_5bkIszPc

you'll get a sense of the sort of AI/physics treatment that I'd like to see in an MMO.  To understand why I think that such technologies can be applied to an MMO, read my article "The Beauty of Instancing":

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/JB47394/112007/667_The-Beauty-of-Instancing

mytrias, that's an intriguing concept.  You're not eliminating levels, but rather introducing the notion of group levels, which is an idea that I don't believe I've ever heard of before.  It has some interesting properties, such as permitting achievers to pursue achievements, while the rest of the people can temporarily alter their entertainment if the achiever permit them to join in.

Unfortunately, it also has some negative properties.  One of them is that players will be obligated to either be achievers or to join a guild or group.  Solo players and small groups would end up being required to be achievers in order to explore the world.

I may incorporate this into my own thinking, where the base world is structured to be open, but that where there is achiever entertainment, this achievement-by-proxy technique could be quite interesting.

Yeah I was thinking about that as far as the whole having to do something to really get anywhere but after thinking about it suppose a player decided to open a Dojo up for instance. He would be able to grab some cash while training his char and teaching other players his martial arts. That way although they dont have to go kick the crap outta the NPC's they still have to earn the moves they see they're new "master" has taught them. I was hoping to introduce something to that effect. Allowing players to do the training of other players. It would be cool to have all the basic martial arts dojo's as well in order for players to pick up certain moves or combat styles. The idea of a player standing in front of other players and going through his own moves in sequence while the students (other players) are mimicing him just seems appealing to me. As far as to the typing I was actually thinking of using the mouse as a targeting guide while using hot keys as your attack choice. Allowing you to choose your prefered attacks before hand and use them quickly in the middle of combat. Also I wanted to work on a block system that was similar. As an example to that say you wanted to palmstike his stomach. When the opening apeared you would hit your hot key for palmstriking and click on his stomach. In my opinion this would make for an awesome skill based combat system. Thanks for your comments. I'm hoping someone takes this idea and runs with it cause I would love to play a game that required the skills I think this would take. Bring me back to the edge of my seat.

Peace

Kubigariya

Drakelore, something to remember about training skills on characters is that the player is usually only pushing a button in order to improve the training of their skill.  That's not entertaining, so players tend to try to figure out the fastest way through the process.

To have a dojo, you would have to have players training other players in how to use the game.

For example, if players were using a multi-touch screen to manipulate their character in real time through martial arts moves, then the actual execution of certain moves might involve some intricate finger movements on the touch screen.  That's the sort of thing that a master of a move could teach to other players in their dojo.  The players would be practicing the hand movements in order to get their character to complete the move, and the master could observe their progress and help to refine their actions towards mastery.

Personally, I look forward to the introduction of multi-touch to the MMO genre.  It should permit more player manual dexterity skill to come to bear.  I can imagine simple moves for simple combat actions, and intricate sweeps and gestures required for complex magic spells.  I can imagine a sword being crafted by a player actually tapping the screen where the hammer blows should fall and pumping the bellows to increase the heat of the fire.

That's all one step away from starting to make our entire body a means of interacting with the virtual world.  When that happens, perhaps your dojo will consist of real instruction, with only an assist from the virtual world to permit the less graceful to still become master martial artists.

again.. ya'll are missing the main point and focusing too much on your ideas and dreams...

every developer has to work under restrictions, the two most basic are time and money. developers are people too, they don't work 24 hours a day 7 days a week. They mostly work 8-5 like everyone else, though the programmers / artists tend to put in lots of overtime and everyone puts in overtime around "crunchtime."

Everything you describe, all of your ideas, all of your dreams, require developer time and money. As I said, both of these are available in finite amounts.

Secondly, A.I. takes up a **** ton of processing power. It's a MMO, you simply cannot have the same level of AI in a massively multiplayer environment as you have in the closed, controlled environment of a single player game.

it's all wishful thinkning and pipe dreams people. Eventually, one day, maybe, possibily we'll have games that are truly as dynamic as you wish them to be, and AI as lifelike as real life itself... but that day is NOT today.

It's not that developers are lazy, it's the facts of life. They are companies, companies run on money, people work for money. Hopefully people enjoy their jobs and passionately work on their projects. 

Anyone who thinks the devs of games like WoW and LOTRO and other games that you call "carebear" are stupid or lazy or just "greedy and only care about money" then you need a SERIOUS reality check.

heerobya, I hate to say this, but I've been a software engineer longer than you've been alive.  (And I really do hate to say that because it makes me feel old)

This isn't wishful thinking.  It's difficult engineering and unfortunately for the players, the game companies remain firmly fixed on making the games look good.  They won't allocate the budgets needed to make this stuff a reality because they don't see the value in it.  The art is selling like hotcakes.

I love the look of the games just like anyone else, but like a beautiful woman without a developed mind, I might be attracted to her at first sight, but I won't stick around when I find that nobody's home.

The next iteration for gaming is to flesh out the operations of the world, and that's going to take some talented engineers.  The first attempts will be primitive, but the step needs to be taken.