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Transcendent's Tomb

Submitted weekly. The tomb contains reviews, references, alternative concepts and polling to torture the truth from the minions of MMORPGs.

Author: Hhussk

The Darkfall Movement - The h8ter and the Fanboi

Posted by Hhussk Thursday December 11 2008 at 12:34PM
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My interest in Darkfall has only started about 9 months ago, but others have been following it much longer. Over these months, I've been watching a war between 2 distinct groups with casual bystanders caught in their midst.

Let me catagorize myself: I'm looking forward to playing Darkfall in the future. I doubt I will join immediately, or during the European releaes in January. More than likely, I will take part in the U.S. release, if one occurs. My opinion is that the game seems to have a great concept. And while I enjoy good graphics, I have never cared about graphics enough to play a game. When Age of Conan came out, I waited and waited, hearing all the graphic accolades, but ultimately decided the game wasn't for me. With Darkfall, I will follow a similar path: If I don't like what I am seeing, I'll quit. Or perhaps, I'll never play.

But what dismays me the most is how there is a love/hate relationship with the game. Regardless of what you say, you'll be thrown in the "h8ter" or the "fanboi" club. It doesn't matter where you really stand. And please note, that this happens to varying degrees to all upcoming games. The difference, though, is that Darkfall has developed a following of love and hate over many years.

So, that is why I wanted to tell you about the Heider's Balance Theory.

Basically, it goes a little something like this, with modifications based on different mediums.

my friend’s friend is my friend
my friend’s enemy is my enemy
my enemy’s friend is my enemy
my enemy’s enemy is my friend

So...what does it all mean?

Simple, the reasons you actually hate Darkfall are not likely to be genuine. Since you haven't played it, you have no idea if you really hate it. Chances are:

  1. You view Darkfall as an "enemy" to a game you like.
  2. Someone you do not like, likes Darkfall.
  3. Someone you like, hates Darkfall

And since you haven't played it, the reasons you like Darkfall are:

  1. A friend of yours likes it.
  2. A enemy of yours hates it.
  3. You view Darkfal as "friendly" to the type of games you like.

This sociological theory was established in 1958 and basically says that under most conditions, we will migrate to a "balanced" state, where half will like someone or something, and half will not.

In summary, you may think you really hate Darkfall. If you have to TELL people that you hate it, more than likely, you're just consumed by Heider's Balance Theory. People who dislike things tend to migrate away from them. On the other hand, you may think you really like Darkfall. You could, just as well, be caught in Heider's Balance Theory simply because you don't really know what you like about it, but just want to argue.

Overall, no one really knows anything. How this movement has sparked such strong comments for and against the game, beats the hell out of me.

tryklon writes:

Why all this talk about this game? Im feeling curious about it, can anyone point me a beta test or where u ppl played this awesome game, im kinda looking for  anew game at the moment

Thu Dec 11 2008 12:39PM Report
Hhussk writes:

That's the point, my friend. No one has really played it. Those who have beta tested it aren't talking. Just a matter of reading what its about and waiting.

Thu Dec 11 2008 12:49PM Report
rvjones10 writes:

mmorpg.com is a case study for this theory. I myself have never seen so much speculation turned into arguments over games that have not even been released. I'm excited about Darkfall but if its not fun(for me) I quit, no arguments. As an individual I tend to gravitate towards things that enjoy.

Thu Dec 11 2008 12:50PM Report
banthis writes:

you can try and see if they are taking signs up on darkfall's official website the game currently toe veryone's knowlede is basically completely hidden.  Anyone that has possibly played Darkfall either does not come to MMORPG.com or simply making up stuff.  Basically no one fan nor hater knows anything about how the game is in reality.

Thu Dec 11 2008 12:50PM Report
Kasmos writes:

Nice read.

I think the amount of hype this game is getting is because of the "mysticism" of the game, to say the least. Think about it; a very small company is very close to releasing what many people I know, and what I agree with, looks like the "answer" to many people's MMO, FFA PvP prayers.

In turn, people who either A) do not like that kind of gamestyle, B) are merely trolling to troll (and there are plenty out here), or C) are truly afraid that this game may just live up to the hype are your typical "trolls" and "flamers".

Trust me when I say that this attention from the community and the amount of "rage" that MMORPG.com is about to see is going to be astounding over these next couple of weeks, whether or not Darkfall fails or succeeds.

Thu Dec 11 2008 12:51PM Report
Splixx writes:

@Hhussk

Probably the single most intelligent and on the spot post about games and the people that Love/Hate them. A resounding bump from me, clear and to the point not taking one side or the other.

@Tryklon

The major driving force for some about Darkfall is that it is supposedly a FFA PvP game that is more in line with games such as UO, EQ, and AC rather than the games of today. So you have people that miss the "good ol days" that are eagerly anticipating the game and then you have everyone else that either doesn't care cause FFA PvP isn't their cup of tea and the outright haters that hate the game for some reason. 

I myself am waiting for the game cause I am truly hoping that it will take me back to my Darktide days in Asheron's Call.

Thu Dec 11 2008 12:55PM Report
Zeblade writes:

Yawn.. look up the word HATE . Enjoy the game..

Thu Dec 11 2008 1:20PM Report
greymann writes:

I hate it because the videos look stupid, they're being shy with an open beta like every other sucky mmo recenlty and I see nothing to make me think it won't be worse then every other recent mmo released.  What catagory does that put me in?

Thu Dec 11 2008 2:05PM Report
Hhussk writes:

Well, you said it's like every "sucky" recent MMO, so that would qualify you under "my enemy's friend is my enemy", which falls under the Balance Theory.

Basically, you hate the game because, you believe, it's like other games you hate.

I'm not saying your opinions are wrong, but we'll never really know what to expect until we have more disclosure of the game.

Thu Dec 11 2008 2:15PM Report
etlar writes:

Very well written Hhussk! i´ve never heard of heiders balance theory, but i actually caught myself going "aha, that might well be true"  when i read it lol.

A big bump from me

Thu Dec 11 2008 2:15PM Report
KOrnfan4evr writes:

@Splixx

Good old days of AC DT =D


Darkfall will bring back the meaning to PVP with the ability to actaully lose more than a few minutes to run back to your corpse and be able to show people "THIS IS WHAT I've DONE".  Not to mention this game will require far more player skill than character skill.

@Hhussk

Very good post!

Thu Dec 11 2008 2:48PM Report
endzo writes:

I really enjoyed this read it is really accurate i wasnt sure about trolls before but i did read alot of posts about how good AOC was going to be and stuff but it really wasnt all what you expect it to be i did pre-order it but not couse of the posts but i thought in me that this might be somthing to try and see. I have the same feeling for Darkfall but its stronger will not preorder thats for sure i will give it time beening a test lab rat aint my thing.

 

Well said Hhussk

 

Thu Dec 11 2008 3:06PM Report
Evasia writes:

Well your wrong i like darkfall not becouse what your theory says i like darkfall becouse what kind of game it will be open free for all pvp huge open world no instance no classes skill based sandbox hardcore full loot pvp hardcore pve .

Thats why im fan for many years of darkfal so non of the points you mentions the theory is flawed.

And we dont realy know anything is also OH SO FALSE we know its ffapvp with full loot we know its a huge open world with no instance we know its skill based we know it have six races do i need to mention more about the game we already know?

Thu Dec 11 2008 3:12PM Report
Evasia writes:

Greyman your just a hater troll and ignorant :(

Thu Dec 11 2008 3:15PM Report
Hhussk writes:

@Evasia

That's a big statement to say that it's a flawed theory, but you're welcome to make it.

The theory never said that it was all-pervasive. Note my quote from the article. The empahsis is on the word "most":

This sociological theory was established in 1958 and basically says that under most conditions, we will migrate to a "balanced" state, where half will like someone or something, and half will not.

As well, I have a questions for you. Do you KNOW it's ffapvp with full loot? Do you KNOW it's a huge open world with no instance? Do you KNOW it's skill based? Do you KNOW it has 6 races?

Or do you believe it has all these things because someone you trust, namely the developers, told you?

According to the Balanced Theory, you might be migrating to a balanced state because you are hearing what you like.

Either way, thanks for your comment. I, like you, hope the game has all the things you are suggesting.

Thu Dec 11 2008 4:28PM Report
just1opinion writes:

Very good psychological (of sorts) analysis, in my opinion.  I myself don't fall very neatly in to either of those groups, although I have to say that the vehement hatred and arrogance I've seen coming from amongst the Darkfall "fan camp," has me a bit put off by the game, simply because I worry that the community would be lacking in character and integrity, due to what I've seen.  However, with that being said....I SINCERELY hope Darkfall is a MASSIVE success.  People don't seem to realize how a truly good game can affect the gaming horizons and market for ALL gamers, whether it's a game you choose to play or NOT.  Every successful game makes the competition among developers more fierce and THAT, my friends, equals better games for us ALL.  Think.

Thu Dec 11 2008 5:40PM Report
Bruticus_XI writes:

There's always going to be some muddy lines drawn with that theory, but psychology is mostly an underlying thing - most of the time, people obey the laws without knowing it because it's subconcious. I'm just watching the entire Darkfall drama with mild amusement (when I'm not playing my favorite game, of course). I hate the fanboys, at least the ones that I remember. Let me say that right now. They're rude, stuck-up, over excited, and insulting. Rabid. But, I hope the game succeeds because 1) Variety in any market is good, but especially in an MMO market, and 2) It'll shut those fanbois up. Thank God!

Thu Dec 11 2008 7:25PM Report
Bruticus_XI writes:

Well yeah sorry girlgeek I should've just said "I agree with you". ;)


Thu Dec 11 2008 7:26PM Report
zelldevil writes:

I can honestly say, I have never, in the life of me found a game where I'm head over heels with the community.  I mean my god, the people on forums for any game, and i mean that ANY GAME, is usually a bunch annoying people.  Which is why I dislike it when people bring up the community for like/dislike a game.  Here's an example, Dota on wc3.  Its still quite popular and i play it all the time, but the community on there is a bunch of assholes.  Yet I still play the game because I enjoy it. 

With darkfall, i'll take the same approach as you hhussk, I'll simply look at the euro version, see if its something I like and then make a decision.  Thank you for your post Hhussk because it really is the truth whether people admit it or not. 

Thu Dec 11 2008 9:55PM Report
Branko2307 writes:

pancake

Thu Dec 11 2008 11:51PM Report
NewEco writes:

nobody has played this game on a live server, right.


But still, there is a difference between this game and recent publishes. The concepts and thoughts stated about this game by its developers read quite good, which is not very frequent.

for example AOC: comittment to PvP but neglectable concepts how it is given a meaning. Lvl based, heavly instanced game. No decay, no player housing, no player looting. all known before this epic fail was even beta tested, algong with the fact that it was published by a company that failed to fix major bugs in their game (AO) over years.

or the Bioware Starwars MMO: herioc, iconic, starwarsy feeling for everybody no moisture farming => Themepark-Bullshit => Fail-Clone of SWG-NGE, will get the John-Smedley-Medal for its predictable economic failure

 

Fri Dec 12 2008 5:38AM Report
Hhussk writes:

Heider's Balance Theory is a sociological explanation as to why we move, in groups, fairly evenly pro or against a topic. It's used for many things. For example, politics and why we are so closely divided, can often be cited with this theory.

But the theory also recognizes that some people make their decisions, or refuse to, because of the facts available...and not because what other people think.

So anyhow, I'm not trying to label any single person. Just pointing out that sometimes we tend to "snap" into our judgements prematurely.

I think it explains a lot of the conflicts we have on mmorpg.com.

Fri Dec 12 2008 7:21AM Report
zymurgeist writes:

It might explain the division but it doesn't explain the vehemnce. Normal distribution would be a ell curve this ones more like an inverted parabola if you plotted depth of feeling vs population.

Fri Dec 12 2008 7:36AM Report
Drdrei writes:

this OP and many others need to the the rpg called Real life, or outdoors

Fri Dec 12 2008 7:40AM Report
Giddian writes:

I just don't care for what I read about it and don't want to play it. Where do I fit on your scale? It's just another MMO in my opinion and I could care less one way or another. it just doesnt interest me. Not everyone falls into the cookie cutter molds of  hater or fanbboy.

Fri Dec 12 2008 8:03AM Report
Dr.Rock writes:

Good and interesting read.

To me the success (as far as subscriptions goes) is probably governed by the level of indifference, rather than those that have sufficient interest to comment.

Fri Dec 12 2008 8:38AM Report
downtoearth writes:

are you sure no fans no nothing how the game is in reality because i belive theres alot there just not talking : )

Fri Dec 12 2008 11:06AM Report
Xantheous writes:

Beta test? What beta test? I say have fun playing a game that has never been stress tested with 10-15k people on the server. Can you say lagfest?

Fri Dec 12 2008 11:30AM Report
Greefer writes:

Darkfall > Everything to date for MMOs

Finally a game that isnt looking to PLEASE THE MASSES.  They are making the game harsh ... and the way things should be.  In turn you watch, the masses will come as they are sick of watered down excitement that all current MMOs bring to the table.

I have been on the forums since 2004 .. and I cant wait for this.

Fri Dec 12 2008 11:35AM Report
Hhussk writes:

Hey folks. There's no scale for this. This theory covers "groups", not individuals. The point is, as a group..the pro and con people will balance out on each side.

I never said any particular person was a hater or a fan. Please read above. I'm just giving you a validated reason that explains why the conflict occurs and grows on both sides.

Fri Dec 12 2008 11:59AM Report
Giddian writes:

Greefer- Fri Dec 12 2008 12:35PM
Darkfall > Everything to date for MMOs

Finally a game that isnt looking to PLEASE THE MASSES. They are making the game harsh ... and the way things should be. In turn you watch, the masses will come as they are sick of watered down excitement that all current MMOs bring to the table.

I have been on the forums since 2004 .. and I cant wait for this.
 

Another PvPer claiming to Speak for the Masses, Claiming this is the Game to end all Others, Even though he hasn't played it. I heard the same crap about Conan.

With the lack of mass testing, No one knows shit about this game other than rumers. so far I see NOTHING official that draws me to the game at all. Speak for yourself and not everyone. I hope the game meets you hopes.

Fri Dec 12 2008 12:21PM Report
Evasia writes:

But conan was always a themepark game Darkfall is sandbox and free for all pvp full loot so compare with AoC is like appels with orange.

But truth is we can't speak for mass, becouse Darkfall is to hardcore in manyways it will always be a nich game.

I agree they dont make this game for mass they  not develop Darkfall  to plaese all.They make the game with harsh enviroment also true, but its only as it should be for those who like that, dont say it should be for all thats rediculous.The MASS will not come nomatter how good Darkfall will be its a hardcore only not all like sandbox but surtenly not ffapvp with full loot thats for hardcore only, themepark players dont like that.

Sure many are sick of dumb down mmo's, but still even more like it other wise not 11million play WoW.

I can also not wait for it to come out, but im glad i finally gonne play a game for my style and how i want it and enjoy play it with like minded.

Dont try put labels on others or say that they wanne play Darkfall thats not the case and never will be it will always be a nich game for hardcore only:)

Cya ingame if you like Darkfall.

Fri Dec 12 2008 3:09PM Report
DocSpencer writes:

I read through these comments and have to say so many people are misinformed... There IS a large beat test going on, even at this very second, I am in it with my clan.  it's a clan beta test, since the game is harsh without friends covering your back. I think it is an amazing game with an emphasis on the more hardcore stylings of PVP, with more even. Not being able to see someones name until you aim at them, then the priceless screams of some noob who just got ganked by me, that is the kind of gameplay Darkfall is going for.  The fast-paced team-attacking, no-naming, hardcore, actiony, FPS, PVP experience. i do NOT recommend this for anyone who isn't a fan of pvp, or wants to avoid it. Some people are stupid enough to kill you while surrounded by the enemy =\

Fri Dec 12 2008 10:51PM Report
AlienShirt writes:

Darkfall = Darkfail

Sat Dec 13 2008 1:57PM Report
ApacHeAM writes:

Darkfall will be the new Dark & Light, practically a grift :D

Sat Dec 13 2008 4:13PM Report
beaverz writes:

Why did you even bother writing that. Df is based on one big bs streak after the aoc failure and the war deception, it seems more than reasonable to feel angry towards all hte fanbois that run around screaming that df is gonna be so great. Unless all of them are 12yrs old that arnt old enough to remember when this game was first announced, you'd think they'd have learned  a lesson with al hte "revolutionary" mmos we've had recently.

Sun Dec 14 2008 8:49AM Report
cosimusta writes:

Nice to see another serious blogger here at mmorpg.

I regularly post on the Darkfall boards, I'm very much anticipating the game.  I've been following it closely now for only a few months though.

Here's my take on the community.

You don't need to fool with classifying yourself or others as h8ers or fanbois if you don't want to.

The Darkfall community members are more individualistic than most communities I've seen, and they/we crave competition moreso than most communities.  

Darkfall is an MMO for players seeking an immersive-competitive atmostphere that current MMOs aren't providing.  Full loot, open PvP everywhere, no name tags, no targetting, fixed cameras, and a big focus on keeps and guilds is all offering a wider range of things to take in.

There is no relaxing.

The community suits the game.  If you care so much about how the community sees you as carebear or hardcore PvPer, then don't expect to ever be accepted.  Even if you say you're a fanbois hardcore PvPer, we/they are just going to sneer at you until you prove it.

Personally, this is a real turn on for me.  More friends means fewer enemies to kill =D

Sun Dec 14 2008 4:19PM Report
stonylein writes:

this is all a little bit far fetched.

 

people base their opinons of this game on developer and beta tester comments, and the theme its based in, and screenshots and so on

Tue Dec 16 2008 1:01AM Report

MMORPG.com writes:
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