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My MMO trash

I hate blogs, it's like the mind's trashbin but sometimes I got some trash so I made this. I'll update it with new content once a year and will not reply to any comments ...if we're lucky.

Author: Eternal-Master

What's the dealio with EQ, dammit!? Pt. 2

Posted by Eternal-Master Sunday May 4 2008 at 3:11AM
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*[I’m getting tired so let’s wrap this up, eh?]*
Simply put, the community has to be mature. This means not trying to cater for the casual gamer, not having to make things easy. We aren’t stupid children, and for those that are, well there are other games, simple as that. The business side does come in here, make more money by appealing to as many people as possible. Yea, that’s lovely but if you’re about the money maybe go into different business, please? No? Well then maybe just be satisfied with all the people that don’t require for the game to be completely easy? EQ and other games seem to do OK...
Now I’m not saying it should be for the hardcore gamer either, let’s not get the wrong idea here. The devs should not be scared to give people responsibilities that’s all. People needing to learn to play their roles/classes is fine, it can be a good thing! It brings in good players, and filters out annoying ones.
Exp/gaining levels should be average (not in WoW terms). Reaching maximum level should not be that easy, it should take time, a good amount of time, it should be almost a freaking achievement, until you learn all the ins and outs of the game. A bit of grinding is actually fine, shouldn’t be able to cruise through levels by doing only quests, sometimes it should only get you close to the level.
About solo and grouping, well, the game should be a grouping game for certain. Not as a requirement but more as inevitability. Sure you can solo OK by picking off the mobs 1 or 2 at a time and doing related quests, but the real rewards should be deep inside that base or whatever where the help of other people is needed.
Don’t explain weather the quest is group or solo. Oh, personally, I like to see some more player integration in the acquisition of quests too. In EQ you had to type in keywords, that was rather cool.
Good communication between the devs and community... well that’s freaking obvious but it’s part of what made EQ great.

I’m done. Did we crack the magical EQ formula? Yea I don’t think we did. Is it even possible? Hell if I know but right now I’m tired so I don’t even care.

### EDIT: I'd be interested to see other people's take on what made EQ so good, that sets it apart from the other games. Leave your comment

luciusETRUR writes: I'm not going to talk about EQ as a game, but moreso what your points. Leveling shouldn't be a chore, in my opinion, but at the same time you shouldnt have infinite max level characters. WoW had a great leveling system, leveling should be a extensive, yet interactive, tutorial through the game. I am not just talking about controls, but how to play your class and go about competitive aspects of the game if your game permits.

Many MMOs are clones, primarily because, even MMOs that do poor, make decent money. I'm not sure about the profits of these, but as they keep popping up, I get the feeling it isn't too bad.

All in all, quit expecting a game to live up to how you view EQ. Just get a game and go in with the attitude to have fun, that's what it is all about. No being perfect, not being as fun as EQ was, but just a really fun game.
Sun May 04 2008 4:26AM Report
Lustmord writes:

In EQ it took forever to level up your toon. Relative to WoW, not many people at all had multiple toons.

So I was a Necromancer. In conversation, I was the supreme authority on all things Necromancer. And because Bustin Amove the Ogre Warrior, didn't have a Necromancer, I didn't have to listen to his opinion on my class. He didn't have one.

Also, I always found people who were suprised about an ability I had, like those Rez Emeralds I could make (forget what they were called atm).

I spent alot of time in the Bazaar, looking at Melee weapons.. for ShadowKnights mostly, and they would make me drool and wish I had that class. But I couldn't really reroll, as leveling took forever.

But I'm sure there were alot of people who wished they had a Necro.


In WoW, which I am actually playing atm, everybody has every class at some level. Alot of people have Multiple (5+) geared lvl 70's.

I am a Warlock. But so is everybody else.


Sun May 04 2008 9:10AM Report
AKBandito writes:

IMO the fast and solo leveling in WoW leads to players getting to level cap and still being n00bs.

Whereas in EQ leveling was alot slower AND you had to group, so not only did you know your class well, but you could also knew how your class worked with other classes, and how to think on your feet.

EQ normal dungeon leveling > WoW raids .

First time I went into an instance in WoW I couldn't believe how hopeless everyone was, wiping because someone made a stupid mistake.

Sun May 04 2008 9:10AM Report
legacyhax writes:

Ok, EQ was a brilliant game.  I can understand your desire to have something duplicate that feeling.  I think though that what we fail to take into account is the fact that when EQ came out it was the first of its kind.  It was all so new to us because we were young as well, so more easily amused. 

EQ was my Third MMORPG, my first being MUD and second being UO.  I have long desired for any game to duplicate the feelings of enjoyment I got when I played UO.  Only recently did I come to the conclusion that this could never happen.

UO took me from reading text to seeing a visual of what I was doing.   It was my first true foray into PvP.  I had no problem holding my own before I left the game.  I loved it.  So, with all the MMORPG's I have played, and that is every single US release minus a select few from overseas, I would start off strong but start to think of all the things it is missing from what I thought makes a great online game.

I went back to UO about 5 months ago, because if I wanted it duplicated, why wasn't I playing it?  Well, the experience has even left UO for me.  It might be because the community is gone, all the friends I had made bonds with were no longer there, and all the rulesets and the simplicity of equipment has dissapeared.  Or, it might be because I have been there done that, I want something new, but I am being too picky.

In any case, two upcoming games may finally quench my thirst, Age of Conan and Warhammer Online.  I said the same for EQ2, Vanguard, LOTRO, and many many other games (including WoW) only to be sorely dissapointed. 

In conclusion, the one thing that is missing from all these games is the ability to dress how we want and look truly individual.  For me, that is most important.  In UO we did not have to rely on names above a persons head, we could just look at them and where we were and know it was them.  We didn't have in game chat unless you were standing right next to the person.  It really required for everyone to hang out somewhere, now, thats gone.

When a game lets me where a dress, kilt, polymorph into a female, and gives me back the ability to be unique, combined with some of the great advancements of the genre, I will be satisfied.

Sun May 04 2008 11:08AM Report
Eternal-Master writes:

Yea I shouldve noted that I don't actually look for games to be as good as EQ. This stuff is something I noticed later, thinking back on the games, it was clear to me that EQ was a whole lot better experience. That annoyed me, so I kinda tried to figure out why other games couldn't be as good, what was missing. (in my own ranty way) I don't think it's impossible to have another game just as good ...just need to figure out what were the things that made EQ so great and do it again.

AKBandito got it right I think, and that's what i was trying to say mostly, when I wrote about game not being easy and leveling shouldn't be easy and grouping should be needed.

One more thing, Lustmord made a good point that in most games your character is the same as the guy next to you. Another reason why I wrote that games shouldn't be easy, though vanguard to me was the closest in that regard.

Sun May 04 2008 11:22AM Report
Eternal-Master writes:

Actually, Vanguard seem to come extremely close to being the next EQ (to me) if it wasn't for the terrible start and 'technical difficulties' :)

That leads me to think that another game can be as good, if only they get it right.

Sun May 04 2008 11:47AM Report
Retrad writes:

What made EQ good? I'll tell you.


1.) Itemization. There were an array of items that you could use for your class that were just as good as another. Sure, there were a few of "the best" but those were hard to get. You had to be in a real raiding guild to get one of the truly epic items. Unlike in WoW there is only one set that is good and it's pretty easy to get if you just stick it out and put in thousands of hours into raiding. The fact that not everyone had the same damn gear made it something. I started playing EQ around Kunark, so what was that...2 expansions into the game? The fact that some people say that EQ had such a large amount of itemization because of their many expansions is bullshit. The developers behind EQ just knew wtf they were doing and weren't being lazy like Blizzard.

2.) There were no clones. What I mean by this is that everyone looked unique. This was made possible because of the itemization in the game. Also dyes helped a lot. It was nice to walk through the bizzarr and see how unique each character looked.

3.) Being max level meant something. It took me forever to get to 65 with my druid. It didn't take me 1-2 months, but 1-2 years. Very few people had multiple toons that were at max level. My alt which was an SK was only level 40 when I quit. Now with games like WoW everyone has 5 toons that are lvl70 and each of them think they know how to play the class. Casual Games = Noob Central.

4.) It was a grind and a hardcore game. I started playing EQ when I was 15 or 16 and am now 22. I like grinding mobs. I enjoyed grouping with people to farm camps of goblins or raptors or wtf have you. Quests were the last thing on my mind because they weren't really needed. They were more of a side project that you could take up. And the thing about Quests in EQ is THEY ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING!!! Quests could take you days if not weeks. And at the end you got an item that would last you a good bit until you got in a well established raiding guild.

5.) Raiding was not a chore. The great thing about EQ is that raiding didn't take 8+ hours. Also, you didn't have to raid to get the best loot. The thing about EQ is that just because you equip an item, didn't mean you couldn't then turn around and sell it. If you had enough plat you could buy raid loot. Sure, there were items that were attunable?(I forget the exact word) but those were really high up there items like in PoT and such.

6.) The community. Even as a teenager I thought the community of EQ was great. Sure, every game has its fucktards, but WoW is full of them.

If EQ would update their graphics engine I would go back to playing it, but I just can't take the graphics anymore. I tried resubbing like a year ago, but the graphics and the fact that I was so far behind and none of my friends played made it hard to get back in.


What I want in a game is itemization so that I don't feel like a damn clone. A level cap that means something not something you can just get to and have 8 toons with max level. Raid content that doesn't seem like a chore and is fun and not instanced. And more.

Sun May 04 2008 2:51PM Report
Yaedien writes:

I played EQ off and on for close to 5 years, i started with UO and played that for close to 6months or so, it was fun but a few friends talked me into getting EQ so i did.

First off the first 10? levels were cake as you learned your class, death system of course we all hated it but it made you be more cautious and pay attention to what you were doing in your group. I was a barb Shaman, i played in iceworld for close to a month before even moving because the game was not easy to level after the first initial 10 lvls. I loved this about EQ, leveling meant something, you actually felt a sense of accomplishment when you "DINGED" (god i can still hear that very unique chime in my head :) ). I left EQ when the max level was 60 but i was in my mid 50's.

The epic quests (only quest that really mattered in EQ) were awesome, there was no real go kill 10 mobs and come back and i give you a level type crap. Epic line quests took FOREVER and included not only you, but your entire friendbase, guildbase,etc... or even spamming going to plane of hate who wants to go :) This involved everybody not just a single person. Even the crafting system wasn't entirely easy, farming for DAYS to get components to craft, meant you actually had another sense of accomplishment when you actually made the item and didn't fail for lack of skill.

Casting system, personally i LOVED the EQ casting system, it made you cast your spells to raise the skill, omg such a easy concept why don't we see this is in more games?!? Not only the casting system but ALL skills, from what direction am i heading to basically anything you could do in the game had a skill tied to it, fizzle, fizzle :) WOOHOO it casted that time, granted you blew mana like crazy but it was funny when your monk or whatever would FD pull and your spell fizzled half your bar of mana away, but thats just a rant and rave.

Just meaning I had a blast with EQ, no game i have played since has gave me that feeling of community, friendship, sense of accomplishment when you finally hit that final level, and now have somewhere to put that spare xp that you wouldn't be earning in games now, you would just put it into your AA's :)

Could i go back to EQ, sorry i tried hit lvl 75 raided PoT a million times got my clicky slow staff for my shaman, did random other raids with friends, etc.. but it just didn't have that same feeling since there was so much hacking involved in the game it ruined it for me, but i push that aside and only think of the 30+ min corpse runs and the hours you wasted just trying to get to another city since you couldn't just click and arrive somewhere else completely accross the world (jeez them were the good ol' days :) )

Will we ever see something like this again, maybe some of the oldschool EQ players will get a job in a dev department somewhere and make a good MMO with similarities (i can dream, can't i)

/rant off

Sun May 04 2008 4:37PM Report
Eternal-Master writes:

Good point Retrad on itemisation. Didn't realise it, but yea, that does seem to be the reason why we have the 'clone' problem in current games.

Sun May 04 2008 6:41PM Report
keolien writes:

what made EQ, back in the tunnel days. was most people that could afford computers at that time was adults, which lead to a extremly mature community.

Eq was so uber because for me, it was the first 3d graphic mmorpg I ever played. I didn't care what I had to do to lvl as long as it wasn't on pen and paper, and imagination. LoL.

Sun May 04 2008 8:06PM Report
Rungren writes:

EQ ROCKED!!!! All the stupid random crap that could happen,  TRAIN TO ZONE!!!!!! How many times did that happen?!?! EQ was dangerous for your character (OH you died? lose a lvl and try and get your corpse out of that swamp)  I play Lotro and love it but there is sooooo much crap that happened in EQ that makes me and my friends laugh to this day... Ninja looting!! Kill stealing PVP that was just obnoxious, I always laugh when I hear people whining about someone taking a craft pot they were going for...WIMPS wouldn't last a day in Old School EQ......GIVE ME SOW AND CLARITY FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY I WILL PAY ANYTHING>>>CAN GIVE BLOOD!!!!!


Thank you


Sun May 04 2008 10:02PM Report writes:
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