The Official MMO philosophizing corner.

Sit down and listen or participate.

Author: Enigma

i've only ever rolled a female character once.  and it was due to them being better at magic (i wanted to play a magic user) than guys and it fitted in with the lore (only chicks were encouraged to become mages in that society).  i look down upon most people who play female characters when they are infact male because 80% of those that i have met were dudes wanting to stare at an ass all day or were in it for the extra attention.  the other 20% were either roleplaying or it was for their backstory (like mine was).

in the end it comes down to personal opinion.  i will always jump to conclusions if i find out a man is playing a female avatar and you cant change that.

My opinion is this: Why does anyone need to know the gender of the person behind the character and why should it matter in the least?  MMO's are supposed to be about gaming and having fun. If people are that concerned about what sex the person is their playing with, their focus is on the wrong thing.

My husband played female toons in WoW because he didn't like the male animations and movements.  It had nothing to do with wanting free stuff or staring at ass.  He never danced naked on a mailbox in Ironforge, or anywhere else for that matter. Plain and simple, he just liked the look and animations for the females better. Sure, I'd tease him about it now and then just for laughs, but I could really care less as long as he was having fun.

Anyone who gives someone else shit for playing a different gender just needs to grow up and get over their homophobia...oh, and also stop whacking off to dirty talk on a screen since that's likely what they're trying to do if they get riled up over finding out female pixels are played by a guy.

i usually roll male characters and make them as scary as hell cause i love being evil or scary, even irl HA! but sometimes i get bored and want to make a female toon and make them look like the woman of my dreams... which sometimes doesnt work to well cause most games look like ass, cept AoC. the girl avatars in that game are delicious.

Well if I have to stare at an ass for several hours a week it mine as well be a chicks ass

yeah since mosyt people play for several hours a week for several months if not years I wonder why it dosnt bother more guys playing male avatars that they are looking at a dudes ass probably more than they should during a normal week.

i have no problems playing females toons , reason is what looks better,  i will choose from there and no i dont take advantage of this to get coin or anything .

Men who play women characters are working through inner issues or problems. This is sometimes related to sexual identity crisis, sometimes related to nothing in particular, at least to the human conscious. It is psychological, period. The common excuse that a player would rather look at a woman's behind than a man's is a testosterone defense. These are the same men who grew up going through their mother's panty drawers or their sisters for that matter. MMORPG's gives these personality crisis types a forum to role play their forbidden desires.

Your avatars sex is purely cosmetic. You chose it based on what you think looks good. To take it any deeper than that is to simply project your own insecurities and phobias on other people.

FatGamer, I highly doubt you are a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist so lay off the armchair analysis'.  Saying that anyone, male or female, has psychological issues based on the gender of the fictional character they choose to play in a game is utterly ridiculous.

Should I tell people my ethnicity, political affiliation, and religious beliefs too?

I completely agree with crzybrtndr, and hanshotfirst makes an amusingly sarcastic but well made point.

The actual gender of the person behind the screen is completely irrelevant. If you choose to get into personal discussions with your online friends, feel free.

As for FatGamer's so called psychiatric advice, I think that's a little ridiculous. While it may very well be true in a few cases (very few), the majority likely have no unusual psychological issues.

Now that you've read what I've written, did you make an assumption on my gender? Do you think I'm male or female? More importantly, how would that affect the way you view what I've written?

I am in fact male, but why does that matter to you? You'll never see me in person to verify this anyway.

FatGamer.....did you end up cybering a female avatar that was actually a guy?....you know fulfilling your forbidden desires kind of thing?

I play any MMOs as a guy, so I won't be harrased by guys. It's superbly annoying to keep getting ingame PMs. Well..unless that guy is gay.

magdalene thats funny cause when im playing my female toons i never get sexually harrassed by guy toons. i always see women saying they play men avatars for that reason. you just play men toons for reasons why we play females. dirty girl

when I created the female character in EQ2 I got PMed buy guys ALL THE TIME. I usually respond immediately, Im a guy in rl just so you know.

They usually never /tell me back. I played her for only 32 lvls and went to a male toon.  Not that it was weird...but because I got so many damn PMs.

really? lol i guess im lucky then. or maybe i have the power of invisibility.... awesome

As a follow-up to my previous comment, I once made a female character in a game.

I made the character as a joke to try and lure perverted men into my trap, they would ask to cyber, they would get started and get into it and BOOM, I would say "LMAO, I'm a guy!"

or I would cyber with him but I would say stuff that involved my male parts, thus revealing me as a guy and totally disgusting him.

Ah, the hilarious escapades of my youth, they still  put a smile on my face :)

First off, I completely agree with crzybrtndr.

It REALLY shouldn't matter what's behind the avatar, but we'll never be able to get past that because we all have that natural little nag called "curiousity".

Now, I don't mind guys rolling female characters, that's their choice, but guys who roll a female character, then PRETEND to be 1 and don't say different when asked, deserve to be banned, which is exactly what I do in the games I run. How do I figure out? Vent..or TS..or it doesn't really matter, but if they can't prove different, I ban them.

I've seen it happen irl, my uncle rolled a female on a game I can't remember (was prolly WoW). And never gave away that he was male, and went so far as to actually recieve presents from someone. At that point I told him he was a sick bastard and his mother agreed, so, he stopped. In a case like that, that's extreme. Thats sick...you may as well be gay if you're going to do that.

But anyway, if you're going to roll a femme, at least prepare a macro that say, I R MALE, STOP GROEPING ME AND NO I WONT SECKS YOU. Kthnxbai

I play what ever is the most aesthetically pleasing gender.  I have played females and even roleplayed them, but I don't like it when people give me stuff for free.  Also I don't like how people treat me as a female.  I prefer being one of the guys. I would like to make a character look like myself but so far no character creation really has given me that option.

I don't really roleplay anymore  because of ventrillo and teamspeak, which is really useful and convenient but just kills RP for me.

I'm not gay, bi, or want to be a woman.  I've been with quite a few women back in the day and I enjoyed every one of them at the time.  Now I'm married though, so just one lady for me.  I think it's funny so many people are so uncomfortable about their sexuality.  I think maybe ALOT of people are bisexual or atleast quite a few of them have occasional gay thoughts, otherwise it wouldn't be such an issue.

One thing that I believe that no one has mentioned, when playing a MMO it is fantasy.  I do not believe it makes a difference what gender you play ( I do play both genders in games, and I am a male )  I always keep the games and RL as far apart as possible, however I do believe that if you play the opposite gender from what you really are do not lead people to believe you are that gender.  That is just sick.

well. latle i mostly play as female. i dont do any RP, juts play for my own fun and entertainment. i dont get ppl who says playing with female char  is gay, personaly i think is more gay to stare in male chars ass all time u play. 

ofcourse its depends on that char rase, i would never play with female troll(etc) char or something like that.  

i think its normal to guy more like to look at girls that buys ...

p.s. compleatly agree with crzybrtndr

Prinny Squad wants to know why everyone ignores the large amount of females who play men.

Is it the incorrect mid-90's myth that some close-minded people actually think women don't play? Are we still in grade school? Time to grow up!

Maybe some of the males just automatically assume that male characters have male players? It makes you wonder how many girls they grouped with that they tought were guys.

I do have a couple gamer friends that are both female and perfer playing guys for various reasons. The number one reason being, quote, "They'd rather stare at a guy's ass while playing." None of them are gay, so they have hilarious (at least to me) stories to tell of female characters with female players hitting on them.

It works both ways. Keep that in mind when playing! Play whatever gender you want - though be prepared to face the consequences of being totally uncomfortable!

is it any different to playing a orc or gnome  (unless you really are one in real life?)  i'm excluding high elves as playing one of those could be classed as being more gay ;)  I am male, I have male/female toons, some are bald, some have mohawks, some beards, I don't look like that in real life either -If pushed, i'd have to say I generally prefer staring at female toons (some races excluded here!) for a few hours, rather than males, if I REALLY had to choose between them.  Maybe those that prefer to stare at male ones should be questioned? :D  At the end of the day, its a game, they all are.  As the original poster said, as long as there is no deception going on...  is it really that important what shape your sprite is?

Yea, I like to stare and a girl ass. So if i'm gonna play a game for many hours a week, I rather stare at a girls ass than a guys ass.

Yea, I had my wow elves toon do the dirty dance. I mean come on, ANY male telling me he had a female toon and didn't is just plaing lying.

Yea, I pretended to be a REAL girl... oh my, what a sick bastard I must be. I mean hey, you can pretend to be a rapping orc or a murderous thief but god allmighty, why would you want to be a woman!

Yea, I did it all, i'm still doing-it and I don't intend to stop.

Guess what, i'm here to have fun and that's what i'm gonna do.

Nobody has addressed the issue of woman playing as men. Why? It's not OK for men to play as woman but it's OK for woman to play as men?

Oh, I see... it's different... they don't want to be sexualy harassed...

Maybe men WANT to be harassed... Oh... that's NOT ok....

Riiiighhhttt....

Only litle boys are worried about what other people play. Eventually they will grow up and stop seeing things behind a purely aesthetic choice.

well as a female gamer my self  i tend to play more female toons than anything else but i still roll quite a few male toons depending on the game

some games have really sexist communities and frankly id rather not get people folowing me around asking to be a friend (and some times worse) just because i play a female toon and they so believe im a female irl (which i am but thats not the point)

and free stuff why do female toons have a better chance of getting given gear or help than a male toon really there is no reason for it if you really wernt sexist you wouldnt worry and treat them as equals

"I played a girl and I liked it. Sure hope my girlfriend don' mind it.."
 

I play gender based on the character concept that I have. Its not due to wanting to erotic RP, its not due to some latent unfulfilled desire, its all about the concept. I’m a role-player and I player characters based on that. Some ideas work better as male some female. No matter what gender I play I refuse to talk dirty or engage in cyber. If others want to, fine I have nothing against it, but it is not for me. I player MMO’s to escape and really don’t want to deal with the stress of relationships (in game) and the drama that they can bring. Also I don’t care if the person I am talking to is male or female behind the curtain, what matters is, do they play well, do they do their job, are they fun to chat with. Most of the people I ran into who are upset about males playing females are looking for a girlfriend. If you are looking for a girlfriend in a game, I suggest you turn off the game and get out more, I didn’t meet my wife in a video game.

I'm not a pure RPer, but I do like to get an idea of what and who my character is, and I like to mix it up a bit. In Wow atm I'm playing three chars, with one male and two female.

My main is my priest, female human, as I love that class, and I prefer that style of play to be suited to a female avatar. (also males look too rubbish in a lot of cloth armour)

My alts are a gnome female rogue with pink pigtails, as I want the most annoying PvP class to be the most annoying visually. (lets face it, nothing more annoying than female gnomes with pigtails)

My other alt is a dwarf Pally. Male, and that fits how I view the character as being more gruff and gritty. I can't get the idea of a female paladin to play.

when i played LOTRO I had a male hobbit minstrel. Theres no hard and fast rules, but the more combat/melee a character is, the more likely to be male. (for me, personally)

I always play as the male character whenever it's possible. It allows for immersion as I pretend to be in that world as that character. The only times I've had to play female characters were because the game forced me to play as a female character or because that class did not have male counterparts (Male Archers exist you stupid mmo devs).

Anyways, I don't play MMOs anymore because the gameplay stinks. I'll try WWII Online's free trial, though.

Guys who pretend to be female when playing a female character either want laughs or have sexuality issues. You can never tell because it's absolutely hilarious to trick people.

@crzybrtndr: Your husband likes to look at virtual ass. That's the only explanation.

This may be some deep problem but people shouldn't jump so fast to conclusions. Many people do not assosiate themselves with their chars, those shouldn't be even called avatars, for that matter.

Mostly female chars look better, even if we put aside the sexual part, they're just designed better. Ofcouse there're exeptions like female dwarfs in LA2. IMHO they look gay. And yet I didn't start that "how can u people roll female dwarfs" stuff.

People roll orks, trolls, lizardmen, catpeople, undead, werewolfs, and worst of all MIDGETS! :P , but that seems normal to everyone, while rolling female and being male isn't. Why?

There's traditional orientation, there's disgust caused by various twisted orientations, there's homophobia and there's homoparanoia. While many people have 1st and 2nd those jumping to previously mentioned conclusion obviously have 4th (due to their haslty asumptions) and mistake it for 1st or 2nd.

And about females rolling males - they aren't being harrASSed because u can't insult them by calling'em gay :) , and tomboys've been around for a loooong time, and females have generaly different PoV on that kind of things.

Personaly I find all that stuff with untraditional orientation and "crossdressing" (from m to f) disgusting, and since that stuff is being widely promoted I think measures should be taken, but u're targeting GUYS not GAYS here.

Ofcause there're those gift gathering bastards (but hey, if they got you, that's YOUR fault aswell), RPers and even voice moders (now, that DOES mean something), but no one cares if u're NOT one of them :( ...

I have a Master's of Divinity and am a licensed Counselor and Psychologist for several States and have counseled people from ages 7 to 98 (yes 98). I have to utterly disagree with your findings.

my last comment was directed towards FatGamer

MMORPG = Most Men Online Role Playing Girls

kinda sad actually...

@FatGamer didn't study your blog and posts much but you don't look like u've studyied or are studying Psychology, and don't sound like that either, also your blog states u're 33. Well u may sound a bit like u're a spoiled kid who's learning psychology for "personal advantage", but u definitely don't sound like a mature practicioner.

Well if I'm mistaken, go ahead - prove it! to me, and the others who doupt u

"Don't buy that software that makes your voice sound like a female in Ventrillo or Teamspeak."

This is awesome, in so many mindfarking kind of ways.

I play female characters all the time, but I don't keep my real gender a secret.  Female characters always look better; their models look better, their cloths are better, and I enjoy their character customizations more... in general.  There have been very few exceptions to this.

A MMO is for your enjoyment, and you should get as much enjoyment out of it as you can.

If you RP as a female to the point of cybering then you are either very honest with yourself about your sexuality (though not so honest to others), or you NEED to be.

Well, that or you see it as a tool to get the loots, but I still question the emotional state of someone who does that.  How are loots -that- gosh darn important?

^ My two bits.

I think if you have cybersex in an MMO there's something wrong with you whether you are pretending to be your real life gender or not. While I am a roleplayer I just don't see that as necessary. Yeah your character has needs but do you roleplay them going to the bathroom or shaving?

I'm going to be playing a female character in WAR. She's got a backstory all laid out and everything. Why female? Because a male sorcerer isn't half as badass. Those who know the WAR lore know what I mean.

That being said I mostly agree with Enigma's points, although I think if people give female avatars free stuff that's more the person giving stuff away being a sad dumbass than anything else. Also I don't think you should have to reveal your real gender if you want to roleplay...but you definitely should to your guild and anyone who you will be interacting with otherwise. Personally I will tell someone who asks that I'm a guy but I won't be asking everyone I meet what their real gender is beause frankly I don't care. I was not aware of voice altering software....and find the idea somewhat creepy.

I personally find people like Fat Gamer who pretend to have degrees online (i.e. everyone who edits wikipedia) to be a lot more deceiful and annoying than people playing a different gender in a game. I'd love to see this "paper" by which I mean I'd love to hear the excuses for why you can't produce it haha. Sort of like the "female" who is "too shy" to get on vent eh? :P

It's just a game, play whatever you feel like. The mainly upset players are the desperate ones trying to get a girlfriend online but that's sad. Hopefully anything you do in a game won't have much to do with the real you anyways.

But accepting gold for "favors" in game is just creepy... It's bad enough with real girls doing it.

Gaming is about having fun, not please other players. For now there isn't an MMO where you play yourself if you don't play second life so make whatever character you like. Lying about your sex if someone asks is another thing.

This is a response towards Reianor:

I am now 34, but still age does not make a difference. I had my BA in Psychology when I was 25. I decided to continue my education towards my masters a year ago. This has nothing to do with my paper or my conclusions. You do not have to agree with my conclusions at all. That's the beauty of research papers, people can come up with opposing conclusions yet both be academic correct with those conclusions.

I am not going to sit here and prove anything to you or anyone else. I found this an interesting topic; I put my two cents in. Take it or leave it. I have no need nor do I get any reward to falsify something as silly as a paper subject and the conclusions of that paper. Please grow up.

Love,

Fat Gamer

Since i was.... eleven i think... I've been playing female toons in roleplaying games. As from the start to now it is always for the same reason. NONE! Sometimes the character calls for it, sometimes it looks better, sometimes the stats are better, or, as the poster said, sometimes a specific class/look/outfit is only available for females!

Now in MMOs i don't usualy disclose my real life gender. This goes back to a earlyer poster who mentioned disclosing race and religeon and such. It is 100% because i just want to be mysterious and its fun keeping people guessing. HOWEVER! When i roleplay and someone asks me 'are you a guy?' I will tell them that if it really matters what my real life gender is, then bugger off. I have no interest in RPing with a guy who is scared that the person behind the girl toon is a guy. If our real life gender mattered, they would require us to put it somewhere in the game don't ya think? Also it's not the person asking for things cause 'i r a girl' it's the idiot who drools and tosses all his items at them who is at fault. After all I bet i could roll a male toon, confess i'm a girl who doesn't know what she is doing, and get a decent amount of help and free stuff.

As for why other people do it... I give you WoW... where almost all the male toons are big bulky and ugly. However all the female toons get slutted up in the armor... Kinda a messed up trade off! So i either have to play a ugly big brute, or a slutty scrawny chick. In city of heroes the chest scale for male changes the whole torso, for females it just changes the boobs... Is it just me or are we kinda forced into playing two roles most the time? Big strong hero or scrawny sexy heroine? In my opinion it seems like both of these characters wouldn't meet the entry requirments to any magic schools so those classes should be done away with. This is of corse a joke.

Bugger it all,

Infernal

This only matters because people are retarded enough to think hot girl character obviously means hot girl. The only other people who care are guys who have to try and act more manly by pointing out anyone who they think isn't.

Hating it when it's used to "trick" people is stupid too, because the only people tricked are morons. It's never them just being nice, and if it was the persons gender shouldn't matter. Also I've seen plenty of real girls trick people out of stuff in games, and I'm the only guy who seems to think bad of that.

Personally, when I go into MMO I generally play equal amounts of female and male characters.  People automatically assume I'm male and call me masculine pronouns and such.  I just never bother to correct them.  I'm not sure why exactly, but that's been the easiest way for me to play these games.  Once I get in Ventrillo and start chatting however, almost without fail every guy is my best friend and every woman is my worst enemy.  So...yeah.  ~_~

By the way, anyone find it funny that Fatgamer demands that Enigma prove is credentials, and not too soon after refuses to prove his own?  I didn't know they taught you to be a hypocrite in Psych 101.

To Enigma: Kosher is not spelled Koscher. Sure you have a masters... rofl.

Love,

Fat Gamer

Ah, I've been mistaken.  Please disregard the above.

Up until your last post, anyway.  I was thinking maybe I was mistaken about your character, but you solidified my opinion just now.  Koscher is an accepted way of spelling the word.  Unless you are coming out with the original Hebrew letters, it's all just phonetic anyway.

Koscher may be a German name, but it is also an alternative spelling to ????????? in English.  Much like Chaunikka et all.  You seem to be getting awfully defensive about this.

Hm seems MMORPG.com doesn't like Hebrew...well Kashrut anyway.

Koscher is not accepted or acceptable to use in place of Kosher. I should know, I have been a jew my entire life! Tsukie, please show me where it says that this is an accepted spelling of the word! I was just watching with amusement until I saw this misinformation. Please continue. **** Grabbing Popcorn***

Interesting subject. Well, i tried to keep my 2 cents as concise as possible, but this is rather lenghty, sorry for that.

I don't like to generalize, and there are always exceptions, but i will break the divergences around this subject in 2 main categories:

(a) people that see their avatar as a representation of him/herself.

(b) people that see their avatar as some kind of... property.

I'm no expert in Psychology, but i have had Psychiatry as a discipline in my med degree. Those that are familiar with the freudian (and disciples) psychoanalytic theories should know what defense mechanisms are.

Basically mechanisms to cope with reality and keep the balance between the id's primitive impulses and super-ego's morality. There are many of them, and they are necessary. some are more "balanced" than others, but it's ok except when they are over-used and taken to extreme levels.

One of such is fantasy. and i do believe many MMORPG players, including myself, use it a bit more extensively than  most of the population. Note that does not in any way make us mentally ill unless you revel so much in it that touch with reality is lost.

Again, i stress, a necessary generalization for the purpose of objectivty, but there are always exceptions.

Part of the "escape from reality" is the representation of yourself as a hero. So, people that delve deeper in the fantasy are more likely to see the character as their representation. Purists that believe gender-bending is just wrong will fit into the (a) category: they see their character as a sort of alter-ego, and as such will want to be honest about their gender.  If you flip the coin, people that have latent sexuality issues will also fit in this category, but for different reasons: as a way to express what might be their true identity. Of course that is fair minority, as with in real life (the difference is that in real life living out latent stuff is harder).

Most people, however, will maintain a bigger detachment. Thus, the characters are just "characters", something they possess, and not necessarily a representation of themselves. As such, the gender doesn't really matter much, it's just about aesthetics, lore, gender perks for given class/profession, etc etc etc. Prefering to look at some harmonius shapes instead of a bulky "box" is perfectly normal, i'd say. Part of the appeal of MMO's is the take on sexuality, specially if you considered that in RL (specially in asia) such things are somewhat taboo subjects. As long as you are perfectly conscius that characters are a buch of pixels rendered on your screen, there are really no big conclusions to draw out of that.

So what does all this lead to? Not much, really... As far as psychological issues are concerned, most of all this is pretty much normal. Normal as in not sign of mental illness or deviation. There os no clear definition. Some people are a bit paranoid, some a bit depressed, some a bit biploar, some a bit sexually deviant, etc. Some combine bits from the various types of mental illness. That adds one to one thing: having a personality. Only when such things are taken to an extreme are they not normal.

Just keep an open mind about such things :)

PS: i did not talk about people who use gender-bending for gain (gifts, etc). 'cause that's plain normal... though morally wrong, in my perspective.

Cheers.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I've got to be going to work myself.  However, offended or not, it still does not change that walking through the streets I've seen this spelling of the word painted on many windows.  If you are truely offended by this, I'd suggest not using the English word Kosher at all and going back to Kashrut or Kasher if you like.

As to Aemroth, I believe you hit the nail on the head.  For the majority of people there is no significant issues.  It's more or less a misunderstanding between two groups of people with a handful of social deviants tossed into the mix to keep everyone guessing.

i play a female character just because they sometimes look better in armor :] or have a cooler style

also it's because it's based on my character names i use. whether it sounds more manly or feminine, but most likely just because their looks are quite appealing, as for a man, yeah im cool sitting down, but hey i played men all the time:P i should have no restrictions to play a woman :P but i do tell them im a guy, if they ask, because i dont really care about getting free stuff or anything, they still give it to me knowing that im a guy behind the scene, they give me presents just for who i am and the way i am :]

Wrong or not, you're both really dumb if that offends you at all, especially since you also called it ignorant. Wow, go look ignorant up.

"...but guys who roll a female character, then PRETEND to be 1 and don't say different when asked, deserve to be banned..."

Let's just make a minor change there and see what happens...

"...but black people who roll a white character, then PRETEND to be 1 and don't say different when asked, deserve to be banned..."

@ Fatgamer

Im Jewish (blood) too. That is another way to spell Koscher. Just stop before you dig  yourself any deeper.

Also, I feel it is in the best interest in the community if I just delete Fatgamer from my comments.

I apologize to everyone who had to endure his "views"

• Enigma- Thu Aug 28 2008 2:30AM

  • Also, I feel it is in the best interest in the community if I just delete Fatgamer from my comments.

    I apologize to everyone who had to endure his "views"

Damn... that wasn't the best thing to do imho, I'd prefer to see him trolled out of his "smartman throne", and now he has a good opportunity/excuse to avoid that... And to play an "expelled hero", (thou I doupt he'd act THAT childish in his 34), and worst of all keep playing smart.

C'mon his post were self conflicting, he wouldn't be able to pose for long... Arg... another "smarty kid" (34 years old one this time) got away with his showoffs... Someone organise a monthly competion for those already, mb they'll leave forums/blogs/comments/whatever alone.

lol Im sorry you feel that way but he was throwing the whole blog off course with Judaic racial judgemental overtones in a third reich German facist state and he kept on going at it.

It had nothing to do with the blog. Look.....Ill undelete his first few posts before he went off the handle. :)

• Enigma- Thu Aug 28 2008 3:38AM

  • lol Im sorry you feel that way but he was throwing the whole blog off course with Judaic racial judgemental overtones in a third reich German facist state and he kept on going at it.

    It had nothing to do with the blog. Look.....Ill undelete his first few posts before he went off the handle. :)

not at all... he actualy made a fine example of people jumping to wrong conclusions (I mean he was example, not made it out of others). Not very depicting or characterising, but rather a proof that people who don't know the situation still keep promoting their opinion.

On the other hand, not everyone is resistant to thown around words, people might get insulted... 'sides, I don't think you need all that trolling in your blog comments, and he's just screams "troll me!"...

Dunno what's best never had any experience in doing moderators jobs...

Speaking about proper posting... looks like I went far away from topic myself...

• hanshotfirst- Thu Aug 28 2008 12:09AM

  • "...but guys who roll a female character, then PRETEND to be 1 and don't say different when asked, deserve to be banned..."
    
    Let's just make a minor change there and see what happens...
    
    "...but black people who roll a white character, then PRETEND to be 1 and don't say different when asked, deserve to be banned..."

What's gona happen is another battle of sub-race conflict caused by bad comparison... I guess we woun't be seeing it this time around since blog disapeared from "latest blog posts" list and afaik no ammount of comments can bring any blog back in there.

Any way there's no tension between males and females (well there're some haters but it's not that huge), and there's no cross sub-race relations that are considered sick/immoral/unnatural/disgusting inside one sub-race, alteast none that come to mind atm, there's not much RPing in that either so I don't see a point in that "comparison", unless it was meant to provoke...

And the ban part was ihmo because of "gift gatherers", and u don't get gifts like "wow lovely white people!" That was actualy a reason for admins of one mmo to ban all players with female chars who couldn't prove they were females irl (read about that a long time ago so I don't remeber that games name, nor do I know how many rl sexual life lacking scammed admins did it take for lots of gamers to be scammed).

Look dude, I'll just lay the cards out on the table.

None of this is an issue if you treat everyone with civility and respect regardless of their age, gender, ethnicity, or religion. Things only get f'ed up when people bring their own personal prejudices and ulterior motives into the mix.

Seriously, take a hard look at yourself. Why would you treat someone differently because of their gender? Why is that okay? Why would that be anyone else's cross to bear but your own?

Fascinating!

Fat Gamer: Kosher is spelled Koscher in German.  Maybe you need to do a little resezrch.  For all you know, English could be a second language for anyone on here.  It is the WORLD wide web, after all, not the English-Speaking wide web.

Temerarious:  you must be an American Jew.  Kosher is the English spelling.  I'm sure the Hebrew word is very different considering the alphabet has little resemblance to English and is read exactly the opposite (right to left, not left to right).

No, I'm not Jewish, but my brother-in-law is and I've been to all his kids Bar and Bat-mitzvahs.  I even was granted the honor and priviledge of retrieving the torah from the ark for my nephews Bar-mitzvah.  So I know from experience that Hebrew doesn't look at all like English and, therefore, Kosher is not spelled Kosher in Hebrew.

If you're going to be a pedant, be a pedant.  But just don't be wrong about it (and you are wrong this time).

On topic, now...  I generally play male characters unless I'm wanting to use a certain skill set not available to the males.  But I'm not adverse to someone gender-bending in game.  The only place I would draw the line is Second Life, where there is no skill sets or attributes involved, but that is pretty easy to check out as the Second Life world blurs into RL with individuals web sites and profiles available online and stuff.

And, in SL, I tend to "gamble" with some of the dice games (free to play with prizes given to the winners) and chat with people I've gotten to know at the tables.  I can't swear that the women are actually women, but their avatars are ALL women and that's good enough eye candy when one is hanging off your shoulder as you shoot the dice.

My RL equivalent?  My wife hangs off my shoulder at the poker tables in the nearby casinos.

But, back on subject, I would never run a female character in SL.  I like my sharp-dressed man with shades on his face, an Omega Seamaster on his wrist, and a fine cuban in his mouth.

to hanshotfirst - I think I'm starting to understand what's the meaning of this comparison. Yes there's a big "U're a gay? Then I hate u!" issue in this subject. But as I stated before, I thing the "banning" part was meant for "gift gatherers", not the people who simply want to pass as females for whatever other reason. Even then, I think gift gathering females should be given the same treatment. It's the fact of gathering that matters. Also I don't pity those who fell for that trap - they weren't forced to give away their stuff nor was that a hard trick to avoid. That was still cheating (not in the meaning of game hacking) but imho - people got what they deserved (both those who were fooled and those who were banned for cheating), exept for those who weren't cheating and just got banned for RP-ing/girl-watching or whatever other reasons they rolled... [blah-blah-blah-u-got-what-I-meant]

Well I don't know for shure what was originally meant by that statement u modified, but that's how I interpreted it.

And my pov on this matter - I try as hard as I can to treat people I don't like (for whatever reasons) neutrally, at least until they take offensive action / behave offensively. I'd probably give a lot for all people to behave this way as well, but many people I happen to come across don't - if they don't like someone they intentionaly show it in every way possible and treat'em like garbage. But noone has right to force me (or others) to like someone. It's how people react to other people's actions, that should be restricted (and even then, not to a point of tuning another cheek), while human's mind is his to govern.

Also in my opinion sub racial conflict and orientation conflict should be looked upon as separate matters I couldn't care less if people chose their way of life and kept it to themselves, but what drags me and many other people into the conflict is that people are promoting their "new" way of life to the point where traditional ways are being threatend. Many young people started to use drugs cause they were so "new", and "exiting", and "cool". In other words they became fashion. And now drugs are a major problem, even thought they're not that "new" and "cool" & stuff now. Well it's people's right to chose but there's information and there's agressive advertising. Also If it's persons way to [u know what], then he/she will find his path there on his/her own, well maybe with a bit of extra "info", but THAT much propaganda is defintly not needed, cause that "way of life" is becoming fashion, and now those who were tolerant are at risk of becoming tolerated and even worse hated/despised/whatever else "untraditionals" are suffering from now. Would u stand by and observe while it's happening to u? It's natural those peole are taking offence.

The matter of subracial comflict is a bit different, u can't convert masses into your race by showing lots of people of a sertain subrace everywhere and/or giving them special treatment. Well there's Jackson, but it's not like 50+% of any subrace are going to undergo that type of surgery. There still people draged in by bad execution of "eye for an eye" rule (like when u loose an eye and then make 10 random people loose their ear, and then they go and tear off some other 100 random people noses), but that's different - in this case it's mostly wrong EfnE + hyped thing with exeption of people "striking" nazi. And in previos case that's mostly people striking back at those who spread "new ways" and some people being hyped and/or starting that wrong EfnE chain(which seems to have less effect/lenth/impact here). I can't say for sure, I'm not an expert on the subject, but it's that way with people I come across.

Those matters look alike, but from my pov in fist case social side of threat is much greater than in second. Social is not the best word to use here, but i can't find a better one. I mean that if people stop offending each other, subraces woun't suffer till the conflict starts anew, but on orientation "field" there'll still be conversion and propaganda, and that's also a type of offence, that noone seems to care about exept for some of those threatend, and when/if conflict starts again sides may change (history shows (many times already) - people who's predisesors were being pressed, won't remember that, when they themselves start pressing others. I'm not giving any examples cause people may get offended, and many've been "brainwashed" with propaganda on such matters).

That's the major difference here. That difference, and the fact that "char rolling" conflict is not purely orientaitonal matter is why I think that that was inapropriate comparison. U see unmodified matter only partialy consists of "pressing on those who are different cause they're different" and if we change males and females on diferent subraces, that totally becomes "pressing..." matter. Also males posing as females are the ones being presses here, and on subracial field people are being pressed just by being one of their race. So if we want to propperly convert the matter to pressing we'd have to turn attention to players being banned/despised/etc for just being one of their subrace. Does that still seem like a good comparison to u? If we're tracking backwards and swapping "black people" (thats just quote, sorry I don't know what name is currently considered not to be offensive) for males (and that's what u did in your comparison) we end up with a matter of every male player being pressed.

Was that a clear explanation? (no offense here, it's just that I sometimes have problems explaining myself, and, on top of that, english isn't my native).

ps. a bit on propaganda and changing ways of life - We have nice example in history - communism spreading and soviets - i'm not tring to say that communism is good or bad thing, I'm saying that that was another way, that was spreading - most people considered that a threat - a threat to their ways of life, and thus resisted, and next to noone was saying that communism was just another way and it had right to exist - people just focused on keeping things the way they were. That's what I meant when I was talking about traditionals and untraditionals swaping places if we just "keep it friendly". Imagine a world where only a few countryies keep democracy, and u'll be closer to understanding why I classify current spreading of [u know what] as a threat. Don't forget - it all looked fine from soviet pov - just as things looks fine to some people nowadays. The key point here is being among the lesser number, I'm not speaking about dominating the world or something.

And, no, spreading in not gonna stop just cause u need both man and woman to breed, there're way to do that without "close contact" already, and current "overtollerance" policy (caused by "U don't like gays? Start searching for lawyer - u'll need him in a moment!") has gone to a point of supporting "untraditional couples" in their every whim.

pps. how do they even DARE to say they're being pressed after that? There's line between "defending one's rights" and "fighting for priveleges" and that's been crossed a long time ago. I don't have anything against people just "being different", but when they're trying to get something just for that - it's completely different story.

 I haven't read one comment here, so I'm not sure if I'm saying this the second or twenty-seventh time, but I'll be shocked if I am.

I play girls in MMOs because I'd rather look at a girl haul ass across the freaking world than a guy.

Aesthetics.  Simple as that.