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Behind this mysterious title I'm hiding some hard work that might be published someday ;) The purpose of this blog is to share thoughts with you who love/hate MMO.

Author: Deewe

(PvP?) Time to get rid of ROOT skill

Posted by Deewe Monday October 20 2008 at 12:08PM
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I still remember in SWG the issues it brought as players were able to keep characters knocked down.

Even I don't understand how designers keep implementing the root feature in MMOs.

I have been playing WAR lately and well, in PvP you really feel like someone's taking away your keyboard.

I ask this question: where's the fun? It's like beating a dead horse.

It would work in slow paced combat but now 90% of the time the root = death.

Unless the root has a huge draw back on its user I don't see it as an interesting mechanism.

Maybe the solution is to keep it for PVE only.



Balkin31 writes:

Root features are fine... Being able to keep you rooted over and over is the problem.

Mon Oct 20 2008 12:46PM Report
Deewe writes:

Balkin31, I agree with you about the issue with persistent rooting.

Maybe rooting would be fine if any player could remove roots on himself, either with potions, skills, gear. So if you really want to you could spend time/$$$ to make sure to prevent or remove it.

Mon Oct 20 2008 1:34PM Report
Balkin31 writes:

Deewe... I can accept that!!

Mon Oct 20 2008 1:39PM Report
Lupinde3rd writes:

In war you do get a skill to remove roots from yourself.


Mon Oct 20 2008 1:41PM Report
Sovrath writes:

There is absolutely no problem with root, especially in War. What there is a problem is that players think they are playing single team "I am the hero" games and therefore can't deal with it.

It's team pvp. You should have back up no?

There is no problem with incorporating other gameplay elements that fall outside of dps and healing. Otherwise it seems that players just want bland dps gameplay which will essentially amount to who does the most damage.

Mon Oct 20 2008 2:36PM Report
Deewe writes:

No offense but I deleted some comments to keep on topic. Feel free to PM me if you have an isue with that.

To Svorath:

Not only  that I don't play THE hero but my main is a healer and even with team play root = death at 90%

Mon Oct 20 2008 3:08PM Report
Terranah writes:

I agree.  Roots are lame and I could do without them, especially in pvp.

Mon Oct 20 2008 4:24PM Report
Kyleran writes:

WAR roots are a major downgrade from the massive crowd control features that DAOC use to have.  There were short stuns, sleep that lasted for 1 minute or more, roots of moderate duration and CC was the deciding factor of most fights.  I don't think WAR is anywhere near that level of CC.

However since it was a team game, there were counters.  You could spend you realm rank (reknown) points on skills that let you break sleep with increasing frequency.  Stuns could be resisted, etc.  Also, some classes such as healers or hybrids could train up abilities to break their teams free of sleep or other CC measures. (always on timers).

I think Mythics attempts to simpliy CC down to roots and knockbacks might have overlooked counters, or ....perhaps the counters come when you are higher up in reknown/levels which was the case in DAOC.

Mon Oct 20 2008 4:52PM Report
Deewe writes:

I was thinking an interesting root feature could be:

A player has the abitily to activate a short root aoe around himself. When an ennemy enter the zone and the root is still active he is rooted till the end of the root effect. The root would only effect the first character entering the zone or multiples ones for shorter duration, depending on  choice of the player or the designer.

This way the root would be more a limited defensive capacity but still useful.

Mon Oct 20 2008 5:24PM Report
micona writes:

rooting is not the problem in war , it's more the problem of root stacking

there seem to be some kind of mecanic in the game does make it that if your rooted by 5 players it stacks so you cant even move at all , that to me if not the way it should work .

1 root am fine with it , stacking am not

Mon Oct 20 2008 7:03PM Report
bamwalla writes:

I can see the frustration with some people just never being ever to catch up with another faster class.  It really gets annoying being kited. 


The real problem I see is in that each class has a certain movement speed attached.  If you give everyone the chance to be as fast as anyone else, then you don't need roots.   Take AC for example, if you wanted to go faster, you increased your run speed.   Ta-da, now the caster runs as fast as the melee which can run as fast as the archer.

Personally, when it's a battle to see who gets the first debuff/root/anchor off, it loses its appeal to me.

Mon Oct 20 2008 8:35PM Report
unipsycho writes:

umm... immobiblize breaks on damage with an 50% chance... what's wrong with it again?

Tue Oct 21 2008 1:11AM Report
unipsycho writes:

 *immobilize :p

Tue Oct 21 2008 1:12AM Report
Azmaria writes:

Couple of things I'd like to point out here...

1) Roots in WAR just set your run speed to 0.  If you'd like to continue escaping, try using Flee.

2) Roots are part of what is known as Positional Combat.  Just like Knockbacks, they are a way for the players to have some sort of effect on the battlefield placement without going through the work of killing a player.  So, yea, if the opposing team wants to coordinate themselves enough to get a root chain going on you, then sure.  In fact, congrats to them on pulling some sort of coordination out of the zerg that WAR scenarios are. 

3) Roots punish you for bad positioning.  If you get rooted in the middle of the enemy team and die, it's because you were in the middle of the enemy team and were gonna die anyways.  It's the same as Knockbacks, especially in Tor Anroc.  If you get kb'd into the lava, its cause you were in a bad position already.  

4) Roots can be blocked, dodged, disrupted, etc.  As a tank, I only get rooted about half the time due to the defense chances that I have.  Also, you might want to try spoofing the rooter.  Charge full force at him and peel away just as you hit the root AoE.  He'll probably pop it out of panic and you'll still be unrooted, ready to start the murdering.

5) Yes, being stopped is annoying.  Yes, being knocked back is annoying.  Yes, being killed is annoying.  They all have something in common (other than being annoying)...they're all part of the game.  Instead of whining about the aspects of the game you don't like, learn to work with them and around them.  The good players are the ones who adapt.

Those are my thoughts.

Tue Oct 21 2008 7:57AM Report
Deewe writes:

Let's focus on WAR for a bit, even if it was just an example.


your comments applies when playing a tank or some of the DPS characters. As a light armored healer, it just doesn't work, be my guest try it.

I have no issues with knockback, as you can position yourself to prevent it. Also It's funny to run around tanks when they try to land one. At least they are preventing us to cast long healings spells.

Tor is a very good example... not the way you describe it. Even it's the worst one: how funny is it to be knocked back AND rooted into the lava, tell me? Once again thank you for taking my keyboard away from me. On top of that it means 2 cliks to kill a character, very much balanced. For the record I saved many players for death in the lava poping the right amount of heals when they wheren't rooted!!!

About adaptation and positionning I have many examples where I used character collision to prevent an ennemy to finish a flag bearer even with a low armor healer and I survived. And you know what, they would root me not the flag bearer, strange isn't it?

Tue Oct 21 2008 9:56AM Report
daeandor writes:

CC is a crutch left over from a dead age of mmorpg development and thought process.  There needs to be a different mechanism to combat zerg tactics!

In WAR, root, knockback, Knockdown, silence, etc are all "innovative" ways of saying the same thing:  mesmerize.  IMO at no point should any player be unable to control their character in the game due to another player or NPC's action.  Period.

Mon Oct 27 2008 1:05PM Report
daeandor writes:

Well, except when that player dies.

Mon Oct 27 2008 1:06PM Report
spawn814 writes:

Anyone ever think they should have deminsing Returns

Tue Oct 28 2008 10:45AM Report
daeandor writes:

Diminishing returns are fine in a game that uses those CC techniques, but IMO it still means that a player is still capable of placing another player in a position of not being able to control their avatar.  The only reason CC existed in the beginning was to ensure that PCs could combat zergs of either NPCs or other PCs.  It's time to look outside the box and find a way that eliminates zergs but keeps players in control of their avatars.

Mythic was hoping for this with silence and knockback, but in the end they mean nothing more than leaving a PC in a state of ambulatory mez.

Tue Oct 28 2008 2:22PM Report
daeandor writes:

Add root and snare to the KB, KD, stun and silence and you have nothing more than a mez that merely changes the responsibility from a single spell from a single class to 2-3 spells / actions from 1-3 classes.

Tue Oct 28 2008 2:29PM Report
Ascension08 writes:

WAR will have root immunity in 1.1, or was it 1.0.6? :) A patch coming soon, either way. Also, WAR roots have a chance to break from damage 50% of the time...sure, you don't attack the 5 people you rooted around you, but I bet you $10 some moron will AoE in the middle of that group and you'll have 2 angry Black Orcs and a Marauder charging at you.

Wed Nov 26 2008 9:54PM Report
Deewe writes:

I read about that, we'll see how it ends.

However, I wonder when, if ever, game mechanics that prevent players to play will be obsolete

Thu Nov 27 2008 8:05PM Report writes:
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